If you're thinking about the 227/235 110+3 stage 2 it does generate a lot of dynamic compression with very little static compression. That was one of the pieces of the puzzle to making it more torque minded while still making high peak numbers. That cam would be right at home with a 61-63cc chamber on a 3.890-3.905 bore, but I would not run any higher than that. With a stock head gasket that works out to 10.84:1-11.12:1 static and would produce between a 8.6:1-8.8:1 dynamic. This cam also works great cam-only with stock compression as it still yields nearly 8.3:1 dynamic compression.
The overall amount of overlap and when/where you start and stop the overlap period determines how the car drives, yes. Yes the 223/231 cam will drive just like a 230/238 113lsa cam, actually a little better as it has 7 degrees overlap to the 230/238's 8 degrees. The smaller duration cam, makes the same peak numbers as a larger duration cam, drives slightly better, makes more under the curve power and makes more torque than the bigger cam under the curve. Big cams sacrifice under the curve power and torque for peak numbers. With these cams you still get the sound of a big cam at idle, you still get the same peak numbers as a bigger duration cam, you gain under the curve power and torque over the bigger duration cam, all the while not having to spin the rpm's required to achieve those peak power numbers that a larger cam would have to be spun to. That is the advantage to the torque max cams over larger duration cams.

Correct, almost all the torque max cams will drive better than larger cams with equivalent amounts of overlap mainly because of where the intake valve opens in relation to crank angle. I should also say that the overall overlap figure is most influencing in the way a car drives, but also important is when the overlap period begins and ends. You can have the same amount of overlap as a another cam, but open the intake valve later and have it drive slightly better than the other cam. At least I have found this to be true in the cams I have done and experimented with.
Actually no. THe V3 torquer has nearly the exact same events as my Stage 2 for LS2 does. Only difference is they use different lobes. TSP uses more aggressive LSK and XER lobes on the V.3 IIRC.
Thank you very much Don!!! They all focus on mid-range and low-end power first, but as a great side effect they all make awesome peak power! Really is the best of both worlds.

 

Martin,

This is Epifanio, the folk who ordered the custom cam for the 08 vette LS3. How many degrees of overlap will the cam that you spec'd me will have? Also, what lobes are you going to use?

Thanks!

Epi

 

The cam I had cut for you (230/240 114+3) uses a LXL intake lobe and an Extreme RPM High lift exhaust lobe and has 7 degrees of overlap so it will drive very nicely for the small amount of overlap it has.

 

Martin, I know your big on AI's work so Im going to pick your brain a little bit. The torquemax stage 1 looks exactly what Ive been looking for. How would it pair with AI 219 HCR or do you think a set of 243s would work better?

 

Thank you once again!

 

Which stage one the 223/231 .610"/.617" 110+2 or the 223/227 .610"/.614" 111+2?

I think it would work great with either. I'm a fan of the HCR 219's because it keeps stock P to V and with a 273 degree @.006" duration and a 108 ICL you'd have great P to V to work with even with the highest amount of compression that Phil can squeeze out of the 241's which IIRC is 11.0:1. I would consider 10.9:1-11.0:1 static to be ideal with that camshaft. It will make for a definite eye opener in useable power and the amount of peak power a 223 degree cam can make.

No problem Epi!

 

I was referring to the 223/227. The useable power is whats most important to me and Im not so much worried about peak power. From my research on here cams in that range will work best, Im just trying to figure out of the old 241s would be suitable or if I should look for some LS6 243s and send those to AI. Obiviously the LS6 243s are better heads but Im not sure if it is worth it for my goals.. I like these cams you came up with though, I hope their a big hit for you guys. Youve been offering up a lot of advice on here as of late and that will go a long way.

 

Will I have too fly cut with the stage 3 cam 241s and stock head gaskets. And how does the stage 3 ls1/6 cam stack up against the polluter v2

 

That cam has a ton of low end grunt and especially mid-range power/torque. It will peak at or around 6000rpm and carry to 6200-6400rpm where it will want to be shifted. I think you'd be happy with the HCR 219cc 241 program as it keeps a smaller port, which will peak earlier than a larger port would unless you kept the LS6 head at the same port volume after porting as the 219cc 241 program.

I always try to offer my advice to anyone willing to listen, it's just the type of person I am.
No you will not have to fly cut if you have 241's with stock sized valves and stock head gaskets. The Stage 3 LS1/LS6 cam is very comparable to the Polluter V.2. It will make slightly less peak power than the V.2 due to the earlier IVC and smaller intake duration, but it will make very similar torque numbers and the curve will be a little broader due to the earlier intake valve close event. It should peak at 6200 with stock 241's and carry nicely to 6400-6500. You can take the Stage 3 cams all the way to 6800-7000rpm if you want to, but if you still have stock rod-bolts or the earlier year model rod bolts I'd limit engine RPM to 6600-6700 at the most. Also with the size of the stock intake ports on the 241 and 243 heads, combined with the intake valve close event the Stage 3 and V.2 cams have, they're going to peak in between 6200-6400rpm and begin to fall off hard around 6800-6900rpm anyways so there is no point in shifting them past 6600-6700 with stock port volumes.

For anyone that hasn't seen the V.2's torque curve here is a before and after dyno graph of a bolt on M6 Trans Am with 1x7/8" headers, 3" true dual exhaust a LS6 intake, stock tb, stock MAF, SLP lid and stock 241 heads. The larger numbers are with the addition of the V.2 Polluter which makes it truly "cam-only":

 

im looking for a cam for my car.. its a 1999 WS6 has a moser 9in and th350. the motor im building now is stock bottom end with ARP bolts/studs. i have PRC 5.3 2.5 heads and a FAST 90/90 set up.. what cam would you say is the best one to get? i was looking at the POLLUTER cam..untill i ran across these.. any help would be great..

 

What cc are the combustion chambers and what size valves? I believe the 2.5 heads have a 2.02"/1.57" intake and exhaust valve, but I could be wrong though.

 

2.02"/1.59" 62cc. is what they told me

 

You don't have enough P to V clearance with that chamber volume and valve size to run the Polluter. You barely would have enough to run either of the Stage 3 SNS cams either, the LS2 version of the SNS Stage 3 has slightly more P to V than the LS1/LS6 version.

This is all assuming you don't want to fly-cut.

 

thank you for the help.. what cam would you say run? it dont have to be a big cam. i just would like to get the best one for my set up.

 

I think with the set-up you have that my "SNS" Stage 2 cam (231/235 .617"/.621" 111+2) would be great for your set-up and would be safe to run with your heads. Great thump at idle, great torque across the board and a respectable power number. What more can you ask for?

 

sounds great im going to order it tonight or in the morning. im going to look up some videos of that cam iv never heard it. Thank you again for all the help. i was really worried about the P to V problem.

 

I got the SNS stage 3 coming to my door in a few days...Thanks Martin for taking the time to spec this one out for me

 

No problem! Get that thing ordered up and get it Tick powered!
No problem Justin, I think you're really going to like that cam!!!

 

Martin, I currently have the Thunder Racing TRAK cam with stock heads, but I am thinking about going with a little bit bigger cam with lower lift so it can be easier on the valvetrain, I am getting a set of Patriot Stage 2 LS6 heads 64cc, I believe the valves are 2.02/1.57. Currently with LS6 Intake but planning to get a FAST Intake in the Future, what Cam should fit my needs(POWER)???, I DD my car but don't mind sacrificing driveability. I Also have 4.10's (mods in sig)

 

If they're 64cc with 2.02/1.57 valves you can run my "SNS" Stage 3 cam with the milder lobes. It is 234/242 .60x"/.60x" 111+2 and would be an upgrade over your current cam. You probably won't see a big power gain, but the gains will be noticeable, and the idle will definitely have more thump to it versus the TRAK.