adamantium

iTrader: (3)

I know a good tune and no detonation will help it last at high RPM's but 7k+ with nitrous is really crazy, first time ive heard that on a stock bottom end with stock rod bolts.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Its definitely not the norm but I have spun mine that high several times. That said the fast intakes and stock intakes do not make power up there as their runner length is too long. Even with a huge cam the power is not efficient and will peak and then fall off extremely quick. My car on nitrous with a 239/247 110lsa cam peaks at 6250 and Carries to 6600 on nitrous before it falls off. Now Jacobs set up will be different with a different cam but its a good representation of what those intakes need and can do efficiently.

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

Im with the spin it to the moon guy lol,what is the record anyway?

TeEnAgE pHeNoM

iTrader: (6)

9.32.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Here is my dyno graph demonstrating how hard a Fast intake will fall off after 6800-7000rpm even with a "donkey dick" cam. Higher numbers were a single .082N jet and a 34F jet, lower numbers were one .052N jet and one .063N jet with 22F jets on each stage AFR was in between 12.2-12.6 on both runs were 20% load on the dyno.



Now that said, if my cam had a 112LSA and 248-250 degrees exhaust duration, I believe it would carry power on nitrous like it does on motor, here is a motor pull:


Here is a V.1 Polluter cam with Tooley ported TFS 220's and a Fast 102 LSXRT(truck intake), notice where it peaks and then how hard it falls off:


You can force a stock style intake to peak at a higher RPM, but it's going to fall off even harder after it peaks if you make it do that.

87silverbullet

iTrader: (11)

We can talk about where it makes the most power all day on a dyno graph and what the intake will do and not do. what matters most is what will it do at the track.

I'm going to give you a perfect example. Third gen TPI cars, we all know they had the most restrictive intake in the world. Put on a carb and a performer rpm and pick up 30 hp automatically. Throw a HSR on it and pick up the same.

In stock form the motor was done at 46-4800 rpms. You could see it on dyno graphs just like Martin showed on his LS1. Put a cam and heads on it and it would raise peak rpm and make power but intake was still killing it.

All that didn't matter, in stock form you shifted at 55-5800 and thats where it ran its best time. Even throwing on the heads and cam, you shift at 6300 with the stock intake, not 6800-7000. That's where it ran its best time. The dyno graph would say otherwise. Throw on a HSR and its going to 66-6800

It all goes back to the dyno is a tuning tool. The track is where you see where the best number is going to be attained.

Spin it to win it

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

My car at the track, didn't pick up anything over 7000rpm, and anything over 6700 on nitrous it slows down. With that information known, why would you spin a smaller cam just as high as mine, if it didn't show any gains? I have a lot of customers running cams I have done with data that shows if you force a stock intake to rev past 6800-7000rpm it will not pick up on the dyno, on the track or on any surface imaginable. Heck, I have the data myself as I've tried it. Shifting my car on motor at 6900-7000rpm ran it's best E.T. It MPH the highest at 7200rpm and went slower E.T. and MPH at 7400rpm. The runners are 10" long(give or take a few tenths) on that intake and the LS intake tract as a whole is 15" long(give or take a few tenths), runners are tuned by length to a certain RPM you cannot change that it's physics. They peak where they peak and work where they work based off length and port volume.

Pat G said a long time ago that anything past a 47 IVC event is inefficient with a stock style intake. I have data myself that confirms this, but I feel that a 48-49 IVC is as far as you want to push it before it becomes detrimental to the set-up and where you could of made more average power at a slightly lower RPM which will get the car faster down the track.

Just having a discussion here, no argument on my side.

Now you put a single plane intake on it, that's another story.

87silverbullet

iTrader: (11)

Just like I said a dyno is a tool. The car I am talking about only ran a TR224 with an ls6 intake and lowering the shift points slowed it down. Conventional wisdom would say that cam and intake wouldn't want it to be shifted that high but its what works for best ET and MPH. No dyno or graph is going to tell you that only the track will. It goes against all what we know but you won't know until you have tried it on the track.

Letting it shift at 6800 slowed it down to 10.40 passes. Putting it up to 7400 allowed it to run its fastest pass of 10.22 and there is still more in it. This is a full weight 3830 with driver f-body, stock 3.23 gears. This is the car on a 150 on the first pass and a 100 on the second shifting at 6800.

nastychevelle

iTrader: (7)

Max effort? Edelbrock LSR casting done by RFD.

mkvamso

iTrader: (2)

rpm equals hp with the right setup
id put a super vic and a 4500 TB on there, run a plate and let it spin

TeEnAgE pHeNoM

iTrader: (6)

I understand that. However, this is a 3500 lb car and a stock bottom end(not even rod bolts). I seriously doubt a stock motor will last very long on a 300+ shot and 7500 Rpms. I think the right combo with the fast 102 setup could get me to my goals. Of course throwing a Vic junior and 4500 would be much easier and cheaper.

suicidal racing

iTrader: (14)

your going about it all wrong..your talking about getting a set of badass heads done and tossing all that money into them an then choking the **** out them with a intake..if you got heads that flow say for example 320cfm@.500,338cfm @.600 and toss a intake on it where the ports only peak out at 250cfm..its not a good combo..you going to want a intake custom ported to match them heads so you truely get the best out of the combo.

dont worry about fly cutting the pistons because if you make that much power to really kill the pistons you will more then likely knock the rods out that bitch before you get to that point unless your tune is way way off..250 or 300 i would def open up the rings..

As for heads i would be looking at some,after market castings forsure..i would not even think about a stock casting..i would want the thicker deck..i would get something like a all pro,trick flow an then send it to ricky @nrc,tony@bes,curtis@rfd or tooley to do a full blown one off custom port along with rolling and milling the heads an chamber softing..i would be going for around 12-1 comp and a big custom ground n2o cam and let it eat..

ill also say at your weight u better do something..because thats a tuff order to do..you got people like me who are for the simple fact 800#s lighter sitting in street trim with ls1 sbe combos..im an 1/8th mile guy though and dont care bout that record..my sbe deal is just some janky *** ****.

TeEnAgE pHeNoM

iTrader: (6)

On the subject of the intake I agree with you 100% but as stated I don't think it's best for the longevity of the sbe but you know more than I do. I would think that if you focus on mid lift with the heads and match the camshaft accordingly that even with a ported fast 102 it wouldn't be a terrible combo.

So you're telling me that flycutting the pistons,milling the heads to 57cc, spraying 300+, and turning 7500+ Rpms is the way you'd go? I guess the motors are much tougher than I thought. Btw I spray 250 right now off the rail. I would do 300 but its blowing through the converter on 250.

Weight reduction will probably be last on the list. At the lightest the car will be 3300-3350 with driver. Btw I still run a 4l60e and intend to keep doing so.

mkvamso

iTrader: (2)

the record didnt get set with a full weight factory headed car
if you want to go really fast you have to make some changes

i think martin could definitely spec you a great cam and any of the heads youve mentioned will make power, but for the times youre looking to run youre going to need a hell of a setup.

i think tfs offers a different exhaust port for nitrous. id get a set and have them hand massaged by someone like tooley.

TeEnAgE pHeNoM

iTrader: (6)

I agree completely. The record did get set with a 3250 lb car and factory heads with a plastic intake. I will be roughly 100 lbs heavier but will have tfs 225 hand worked plus exhaust porting vs ls6 heads. Ported 102 vs 92. Not to mention a camshaft spec'd for the big shot. I'm not saying this will be easy guys. I know that I have my work cut out for me but I believe it is possible. I know it will take much trial and error and I plan to make small changes at the time. I'm just planning ahead. I still have to maximize the power I'm making now. I know the car is 9.6x capable with a gear swap, and converter restall with some tweaks to the tune.

I really appreciate all the insight I'm getting and it definitely has me thinking hard about the different combos.

JPH

iTrader: (2)

AFR 215 or TFS 215s are by far some of the BEST stuff I have seen out there and used. TFS stuff needs touched a bit if your running .600+ lift. What kind of N20 system are you running? Direct port I imagine? There is some concern here imo, depending on what intake manifold you are running.

Killer5.3

iTrader: (1)

You are obviously runni g a setup like this. Post more info about your combo, vids of you car at the track, what it runs , weight, etc. Your car sounds impressive and we are always looking for data, info , from somebody that has already done what we are trying to do. Your car is an f body right? The more specific and detailed info the better.

TeEnAgE pHeNoM

iTrader: (6)

Thank-you for the response. As of right now I'm running a Nitrous Outlet single stage plate. I'll probably end up swapping to a direct port of course.

JPH

iTrader: (2)

I agree with this statement/comments.

suicidal racing

iTrader: (14)

my sbe has 56cc ported 243s sitting on it 51 gaskets and pistons are fly cut .1 int/exh with the cut edges blended,it makes for 11.66-1 comp with 46 for quench.cam i got right now in it on a 200-250 shot would prob start falling off around 7300/7400..custom cam i have in mind i believe would be in the same area but be able to handle 300 an such better..but im the type of person where if i do that..then im sending the heads an intake out to have port work done,mill some more an will go look for a quench in the mid high 50s an it will be a full blown setup n2o deal..right now its for a street strip deal where i want it to be decent n/a an n2o..


as for wanting to do it with that much weight an that trans you have a really tall task ahead..didnt smith set the record? swear i seen him say he was just over 3k some where..not sure though..me i would have a th400 in it an shoot for 3k with driver..

As for the intake,why not spend the money right..your trying to go for a record with a car thats extremely heavy an has a trans not ment for drag..you said you want to get the best power you can n/a before you spray it..why go with a intake that may only work well with your mid lift numbers? an before people jump on me yes fast intakes are nice intakes but you aint going to see one of them on a badass all out piece so why settle for something u dont think would be a terrible combo.

if your worried about longevity with it then i would just keep spraying what you are add some good heads to it,fix the converter and do some weight reduction..if i was going all out for the record with a sbe deal i would be going in full an well knowing this bitch could send a rod threw the block on the first damn lick once i felt i had a tune for a big big hit.