New motor..broken oil rings, ever seen anything like it?
03-24-2013, 06:50 PM
#1
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New motor..broken oil rings, ever seen anything like it? Built a new standard bore 6.0 with Wiseco pistons. Broke it in, changed the oil. Took it to the track, it started smoking on deceleration.
Got the motor out today after a leak down test showed there was a problem.
5 of the 8 cylinders had broken oil rings. Never seen that before. Compression rings were fine except for it collapsed the ring land on the second ring and the second ring is stuck on all of them.
The oil rings are if a bunch of pieces on each one. Pistons are garbage as well as the cylinder walls.
Got the motor out today after a leak down test showed there was a problem.
5 of the 8 cylinders had broken oil rings. Never seen that before. Compression rings were fine except for it collapsed the ring land on the second ring and the second ring is stuck on all of them.
The oil rings are if a bunch of pieces on each one. Pistons are garbage as well as the cylinder walls.
03-25-2013, 07:47 AM
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I used Pennzoil 10/30 Dino oil like I have in all the other engines I've ever built. Clearance was .006" IIRC, I'll have to look.
The oil ring spacers broke and got between the skirts from what it looks like. The cylinder walls are all gashed up on the cylinders that broke the rings, the rest are fine.
The oil ring spacers broke and got between the skirts from what it looks like. The cylinder walls are all gashed up on the cylinders that broke the rings, the rest are fine.
03-25-2013, 09:13 AM
#6
Oil ring spacers too tight, overheated and came apart. Did you check any of the spacers before installing them? I would have to think they were hard to install to cause this much damage.
03-25-2013, 09:21 AM
#7
The expander ends may not have been butting, but overlapping when the pistons went in, which is really easy to do. Either that or the rails may not have had enough gap. Wiseco's oil rails usually have plenty, but I have caught other brands that didn't. I'd bet on the spacer ends overlapping instead of butting.
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03-25-2013, 09:25 AM
#8
hate to see this,,,, sorry this happen...... i would not say it was built wrong,,,, if you guys have never built a grand national's motor's you would understand what im saying.... buick motor's are the worst of doing things to the tee.... me and him both been in the buicks for years and years...
03-25-2013, 10:59 AM
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I'm not saying it wasn't my fault, I'm not an engine builder for a living, but this isn't my first rodeo either. I bought a bore specific ring compressor just to do the 6.0's and never had a problem until this one.
The oil rings are so brittle that when I took them out and wiped everything off to # them, the oil rings were just falling apart. You can grab one and snap it easier than a tooth pick.
I called Wiseco and they said they've never heard of anyone breaking one and told me to send them back so they could look at them.
Maybe they can shed some light to where it was a defect of I just goofed up some how. I'd like to know either way if possible so it doesn't happen again.
The oil rings are so brittle that when I took them out and wiped everything off to # them, the oil rings were just falling apart. You can grab one and snap it easier than a tooth pick.
I called Wiseco and they said they've never heard of anyone breaking one and told me to send them back so they could look at them.
Maybe they can shed some light to where it was a defect of I just goofed up some how. I'd like to know either way if possible so it doesn't happen again.
03-25-2013, 11:39 AM
#10
Well, looking at the photo you can see the expander is worn which isn't supposed to happen. Properly installed, the 3 piece oil rings should look like this:
This results in only the rails (#3 and #4) to contact the cylinder wall, and not the expander (#5). If the expander ends overlap instead of butt together it allows a portion to come out from behind the rails and make contact, which is what looks like may have happened.
Was the engine difficult to turn over with the pistons installed?
This results in only the rails (#3 and #4) to contact the cylinder wall, and not the expander (#5). If the expander ends overlap instead of butt together it allows a portion to come out from behind the rails and make contact, which is what looks like may have happened.
Was the engine difficult to turn over with the pistons installed?
03-25-2013, 11:46 AM
#11
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It wasn't difficult to turn over by hand at all, I would've taken it back apart if so. The engine was turned over several revolutions after each piston was installed
03-26-2013, 01:24 PM
#12
Exact same thing happened to my first motor with Wisecos. Not sure if it was a ring issue or an install issue from my builder, but it trashed my cylinder walls. Had to get a new block and redo the machine work. My builder said the same thing. He took the piston out and the oil rings just crumbled.
The 2nd block is fine now.
I did reuse the pistons on my build though. No smoke or oil consumption issue this time.
The 2nd block is fine now.
I did reuse the pistons on my build though. No smoke or oil consumption issue this time.
03-26-2013, 01:28 PM
#13
Here is my thread.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ock-fixed.html
I never physically saw my pistons, so I am hoping they were not trashed in my 2nd motor. I was just going by the machine shop's word that they were fine. It doesn't burn a drop of oil, so I would assume if they had issues I would have oil consumption.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ock-fixed.html
I never physically saw my pistons, so I am hoping they were not trashed in my 2nd motor. I was just going by the machine shop's word that they were fine. It doesn't burn a drop of oil, so I would assume if they had issues I would have oil consumption.
03-26-2013, 01:42 PM
#15
The 3rd time was the charm, but then broken oil rings. Then they coincidentally went out of stock of the 3905GFX rings for 3 months! So I had to wait to get my 2nd motor done.
Something fishy was going on....
I suspect an issue with the rings, but how can you prove that...Luckily my machine shop did all the labor for free, or I would have been out $2k.
I do wish I got a look at the two pistons though. My car runs fine now, but it was down a little power on the dyno compared to similar setups. But I would think I would be burning oil if the pistons were garbage.
03-26-2013, 03:50 PM
#16
If Wiseco supplied the pistons and rings they owe you a new block etc! Its painfully obvious the oil ring spacers are improperly heat treated and sized! I'd be on the phone demanding an explanation.
03-26-2013, 08:32 PM
#17
They would have to take responsibility...I don't think you could prove it was material failure.
03-27-2013, 12:36 PM
#19
So either the shop gets blamed or the customer and some ones out a lot of money. I'd be calling them getting some kind of good explanation of why the parts failed when it was properly assembled. I mean seriously at 1st I thought this was some one building a engine in their garage that didn't know what they were doing.
Its clearly a parts failure! Call them out on this OR post it all over the web!
Its clearly a parts failure! Call them out on this OR post it all over the web!
