How much is the billet upgrade? It's a shame you have to "upgrade" to be sure you are getting a piece that won't shred itself apart.

 

Their livelihood is bolstered by these types of threads... or rather witch hunts. Look how many people have needlessly panicked and are now considering purchasing non Comp Cam products from them.

There are certain sponsors on here that I carefully read everything I see posted from them and highly regard their advice, and some of those guys are in here. Damian and Geoff are not on that list.

 

Censure is not the way to control facts. Consider this thread as an intelligence gathering.
A lot of people panic because they do not understand the process or cause of an issue.
Many here choose the wrong springs (by choosing highest spring lift capabilities) thinking this would be added insurance. It is a common mistake and too much spring pressures has a detrimental effect on other parts such as lifters which like LS7s are not designed to handle that much. Add to that improper install procedures and shortcuts; results are failures.

I would say over 90% of the cams I used are Comp, in all the years I've returned 1. I've used Isky, Crane, Lunati and Cam-motion. I've seen issues with Cam-motion a few years back as well. That is the industry. Sometimes QC is not always the best no matter what the brand.

 

You're correct that too much open spring pressure is VERY hard on valve tips when using stock rockers, due to the rocker arcing over on itself and scrubbing across the top of the valve. But that's not really what kills lifters. Lofting is what kills lifters, when the valve train system becomes separated these parts come crashing down which can damage the cam core and the lifter wheel and bearing. The lifter wheel, bearing and axle aren't designed for shock loads. When you consider how small the needle bearings are inside the wheel, and how little actual contact area there is, it's easy to understand how these shock loads can damage the wheel, bearing or axle. Once one of those parts becomes damaged, it then eats itself up.

 

What about the Livelihood of the customers spending the $$$ is that not as important?? First of all what is a vendor without its customers? What is a vendor that's only worried about getting it's piece of the pie?? Customers are Earned through Great quality service, participation, quality of product, stands by the product they sale, care for the end user etc,etc. Money and lifelong customer loyalty is the rewards.

Its threads like these that HELP the end user. Instead of just buying parts that are PLUG n PLAY, BIGGEST THIS/THAT the End User has a chance to slow his Parts buying spree down and do a little more research into everything and Actually learn somethings. I for one was the not so informed end user..Just buying parts because THEY said "Should be good". Well, I was not fully in the right direction till this thread. My H/C/I is on hold now till i complete my research Thoroughly.

If the vendors are so Concerned about this whole Comp Cam situation which if there isn't any shouldn't be a concern, then they and Comp Cams Need to push harder, Reach out (Be involved, point us in the right direction) to get the Customers. After all its about the Customers Right?! A Happy well informed and confident Customer is a Lifetime customer that will bring in more customers.

Forgive the Rant but Damn its irritating when a good thread with very useful information is requested to be removed so it doesn't affect "LIVELIHOOD OF VENDORS" and to protect the All Mighty Comp Cams name. That' Bull and cowardly. also makes one think.. is there something that needs to be hidden?

 

^Well said.

 

Comp doesn't need to do anything. The oil problem has been known for almost 2 decades now. Anybody familiar with older flat tappet engines is certainly aware, but with the aggressive valvetrains that are more and more common in our engines now it's becoming an issue.

Comp says it's oil. They're right. End thread.

 

Since this is not an oil thread, anyone interested in oil should take a peak at this thread...

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...run-oil-4.html

 

Just like how the President said he wouldn't raise taxes another dime!hmm...lol. oops!


Everyone has their opinion. But do you really want to end the thread just on that?! Seriously?! So that's the answer to everything? Comp has a lot to lose i would think so Yes, they should do something to back their product up. They need this as a reminder to maintain if not up the standards. Keeps them fresh on their toes if that makes sense. You must have a stake in this to want this thread gone. Plus, this thread like said numerous times has other valuable info ..its not all trash talk. So I Look at the bigger picture with this thread. It puts fear into the end users mind which is a good thing! Makes them want to actually Research their options and Value their install instead of halfassedly throwing **** together. Its definitely an eye opener for sure but in a positive way.

 

A couple of points.

Geoff has never come on here and bashed Comp. In fact, he didn't even advertise his switch to Cam Motion. And I know he doesn't want to bash Comp, but he made the switch based on several factors, including QC. He had worked extensively with Comp in the past, so he isn't some new vendor trying to bash Comp to drum up sales. In fact, I would say he hasn't done any of that. As far as I know, he doesn't come on here at all anymore.

Comp Cams is the 800lbs gorilla in the performance world. Almost everyone uses them. I can see a lot of vendors being gun-shy about bringing to light any potential problems if there were any problems, because they are much smaller than Comp. It's sort of like Windows and the PC manufacturers back in the late 90s. There were issues with the way Microsoft handled competition, quality, and treatment of industry partners. But you never heard anything from those vendors. They didn't want to be cut off. The lawsuits came from elsewhere for antitrust violations. Not saying Comp is doing that, but you have got to know there aren't going to be many if any shops willing to come forward unless the issue is quite severe. And I think the issue is probably overblown, but it does seem to exist - and there are many potential causes here in this thread - things I've been very vigilant with in my build.

I will say that for a lot of shops that don't do a ton of installs or builds or that haven't been around for long enough for the mileage to build up on the installs - your sampling size is probably too small to see problems if these issues are fairly uncommon.

At the end of the day, you need to find a vendor you feel comfortable with and let them work with you on spec'ing a combo. I think based on the feedback in this thread, you should have a pretty good idea of whether or not what they are spec'ing makes sense for you.

One last thing: I'm surprised no one from Comp has come in to say our QC rocks, oil/install errors, and yadda yadda we are great. This site still gets a lot of traffic and this thread in particular has a lot of views in a fairly short timeframe. Instead, it's left to vendors who rely on Comp to make their money to try and fight a perception issue they quite honestly don't know whether it is a real issue or an internet issue.

 

Well two thing I am curious about.

1. If it is indeed newer oil (not sold on that one) then what is Comp doing to solve the problem other than saying that you must use $10/qt oil or a weight of oil that is a bit heavy for oem clearances? Have they changed their product to work with these newer oils? Have other companies changed and are thus having less issues?

2. The dual valve springs vs beehive thing was mentioned earlier. At what point is it necessary to go with larger dual valve spings in order to be able to run these cams without valve float? At this point should one step up to a "billet" cam to avoid issues? What else should I , as a consumer know?

 

IMO The main issue is not valve control between beehives and duals but more a fear of dropping a valve if spring breaks.
I've used mainly beehives because I'm a fan of their harmonic control (superior to duals and why they were developed).
Also because for street applications, and the fact that I try to use the lightest effective moving mass (light spring, light valves).
See, many are still wrapped up in old school SBC beliefs where bigger valves meant more power since SBC heads were marginal at best.
This is not the case with LS. My LS2 makes 480+ rwhp on stock LS6 valves 2.00/1.55 (YES the heads are ported)
Beehive failures are mainly due to improper install. Most just want something to just "drop" in with no further install work.
Heights need checked, distance from coil bind etc..... When properly done, they are as safe as duals and even make more power.
Also, ever since the appearance of Jap. products on the market, a lot of youngsters want to see outrageous rpms. Now I agree in racing applications, but on the street, it is simply not necessary. I never pass 6800 rpms, because my setups are designed to make power at a lower range and going further is counterproductive. (one of the reasons I'm successful using Reverse Split cams which unlike their bigger brothers do not max at upper rpms but more over a larger area under curve).
So at which point do I use duals? When I use bigger heavier valves. Usually not on the street since I do not need more power than I actually make.

 

My point wasn't that they're right because they said so. They're right because it's the truth. This isn't a new issue! They've been warning performance enthusiasts since the late 90s about this problem. Comp warned me on this issue back in 1998 when they recommended their XE274 flat tappet for my SBC Camaro. People were plagued with wiped lobes on the new aggressive grinds because they weren't warned. In my opinion, that's not Comp's fault.

 

Very good information, but how does this apply to forced induction applications where there may be a good amount of backpressure in the exhaust as well as the intake tract? I have heard many times that in a forced induction LS application heavier valve springs should be used to avoid valve float.

 

What does GM use in the almighty ZR1 6.2L Supercharged?
I'll give you a hint: Not duals

What you mentioned is internet myth.
Also people regularly use too aggressive lobes for FI, not necessary. Let the boost do the work. (in street applications, racing is extreme).

 

Just to clear up a minor thing, you have mentioned an "upgrade" to a billet cam a couple times in the thread. All the current LSx cams (including the comps) are billet cam cores. The upgrade mentioned earlier in the thread is an upgrade from a standard 5160 billet material cam core to a 8620 material. A quick google search can explain the differences but they are both billet.

 

How are you certain that we don't know what the issue is?

NO offense Jake, but have you actually ever held in your hands, installed or seen a comp cams camshaft in person or used one before? You have led the charge on this "issue" for I don't know how long now. I just would like the information that is being tossed around about an "issue" to come from those that have many repetitions in dealing with comp cams.
VR1 is 6 bucks a quart.

 

For comparison, a site that doesn't jump to conclusions that they read about on the internet:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=567943

 

Just what it was referred to here:

 

And depending on who you believe is not necessary on other cam manufacturers who are not experiencing these failures. I ask again, what are the other companies doing to not have to use special magic oil? Is this just a volume thing where Lunati is not having as many reported failures as other companies when using regular oils? Are some comp grinds just too thin on the hardening layer as has been suggested? Do these grinds not exist with other companies and thus they do not have the same problems when using potentially the same core manufacturer? Just questions that pop up in my head that no one seems to have the answers for.

Based on posts like this it seems their reviews are mixed as well: