I hear you and I completely agree. However, companies like Mobil, Castrol, Shell etc etc etc all shoot for the manufacturer's mark of approval. If you look in the manuals it says the oil needs to meet whatever standard the manufacturer says. That is on stock valvetrain. And that is usually good enough for 90% of the people out there. Even on my stock valvetrain I still run a zinc addative. I agree that the companies should put out a little more info on their oils. But that said, most of the users don't know or care enough to look for it. I still think most of their bullshit is marketing ploys to try and garner sales. When I swap to a new valvetrain I'll still run zinc addatives (whatever the cam manufacturer says or the builder who is going to do it for me since I lack the time to do my own wrenching now. It's always been a habit of mine to run zinc addatives anyways... Probably more of a mental reassurance than anything but I have never had any issues with the top end in my cars (granted they have all had mild California 'legal' cams).

 

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It is your engine. Not mine. You should have a good idea of what's going in it.

All of my customers will tell anyone in this thread that I probably explain more about what is going into their engine than any other vendor they have ever spoken with. I want to teach my customers what they are putting into their engines and how it actually works.

That said, you should know what you're putting into your engine!!! It is your prerogative as a consumer to realize that you are modifying your engine outside of the parameters of its intended usage. The blame does not all rest on the vendor's shoulders. If you read the LSK lobe description it says in BIG BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS that they are very hard on parts and not generally recommended for street applications. This catalog is available to anyone who so opens it, but it's my fault that I didn't tell you they are hard on parts? I just don't see it that way, sorry. Also for that reason is why I have never specified a LSK lobe on any cam I've had ground nor will I ever.

Also you said your cam core was coming apart? Why was it only coming apart on one lobe? If the core was faulty, wouldn't the entire core and every lobe be coming apart?

 

I'm Present! I'll just be right over here gathering more knowledge...Carry on

 

It was every lobe, some were worse than others. Comp didn't give me a reason or explination why my cam looks the way it does. The guy I talked to said there were a few lobes where there was a small line all the way around the lobe were a peice of debris was caught under the roller wheel and due to me using synthetic oil instead of the roller "rolling" over the debris is jambed the wheel. You couldn't catch your fingernail on the fine line so the damage was superficial. I told him I agreed with that however when I asked why the entire cam looked the way it did he couldn't give me an answer. He offered to give me a heavy discount on the purchase of another cam from them.

I've talked to Comp and two other very reputatle people in the business and I have a total of three answers on why my cam looks like it does. One said it was spalling and told me to research it. I did and the pictures I found looked nothing like my cam. I was told it was the cam core and third they couldn't give an answer.

I did not mean to be adversarial(sp?)in my last post. I highly respect you and the amount of time you spend on here. I apologize if I came off that way. There had been a couple things I had wanted to say in this thread but had held my tounge.

 

So the only cams with problems are those cut on LSK lobes? If that is indeed the case then how would the manufacture's (cam or oil) be at fault?

 

There is alot of good information listed in this thread. However I agree with a lot of the one's in here that know more than me.

1. Research,Research,Research, ask as many questions as you can. IMO the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.

2. In the end it is your money and engine, if you decide to go as big as offered without research then it is your fault not the manufacture. They are in the buisness to offer and sell many different options. If they didn't then everyone would run the same.

 

I have never had any issues with the top end in my cars (granted they have all had mild California 'legal' cams).[/QUOTE]

You never will have any wear problems running a smog legal "California cam". Its not your zinc additive its the mild configuration of the lobes on your cam. I've run XER and XE lobes and they will run forever without failure. I've 150,000+ miles on a cam with XER lobes and it looks great.

 

I guess it was something during the hardening process on a certain batch of cams sold awhile back..

 

i just lost the cam in my truck all the lobes are wiped out ive got ruffly 5k to 6k on a brand new gm crate motor luckily i found the problem before it got worse then it is

have any of you guys needed to do a full rebuild or just swap cams out and flush the motor out real good?

 

My experience is the same, I run mostly XFI and XER mix. Attention to details and following proper install protocols is required. Toss and forget is not desirable with XER, they are sharp profiles, but if done correctly, they deliver.

 

Some people who do this for a living claim they've been seeing these failures (off and on) for years. I'd tend to believe them.

 

I have a 2008 5.3L Silverado in my bay right now. Pitted lifter roller and camshaft on cylinder 2, exhaust side (first lobe on cam). The vehicle is completely stock, low miles, engine is clean, and has adequate oil change records. Maybe some fool will find a way to blame Comp?

 

I pulled my engine out last weekend. I wanted to drop the pan and look to see if there were any metal flakes or bearing material and luckily there wasn't.

 

Did anyone happen to see this past Saturday's episode of Horsepower on Spike? The whole episode was shot at Comp Cams and it showed the process from start to end in regards to grinding one of their cams.

 

I felt bit by comp cams when my old professionally built gen1 SBC with a magnum hydraulic flat tappet cam wiped a lobe and destroyed my bearings within 10,000 miles of driving. Was it really the cam? I don't know.

Kind of like anything else that can go wrong and trash your motor... once something fails with a certain company logo on it, it's not hard to step away weather you know it was their fault or not.

24,000 miles on my high-lift Lunati setup (cam and recommended pushrods and springs) so I'm feeling pretty good for now anyway.

 

I know this is an old thread, but I thought it was informative so I wanted to add to it.

I'm one of those folks with an LSK lobed motor in a 346 in my buddy Tommy's car. But, the car is also running Morel Lifters, Manton Pushrods, and Jesel J2K's. Also, the car really hasn't been run a lot. It was build mostly as a drag car, but has gone to the road course a few times (which is really a bad idea with that lobe, but it is what it is). It isn't a daily driver, (it could be, but it isn't). If it were, we'd probably swap the cam. For a 346 it makes pretty good power 510-515RWHP @ 7400. That cam is 7 years old.

What is my point? When that cam was sold people were running LSK lobes on the street. Manufacturers, shops, and end users have (hopefully) learned a lot in that time. We didn't build the car as a daily driver. We built it for a specific purpose. Too many other folks wanted to use the cam lobe for a purpose it wasn't suited too. They soon learned what it can and can't do. Sometimes that is an expensive lesson.

But, lets look at why we are where we are. Everyone always thinks bigger is better. I'm not knocking TSP, but its the reason we have a T-Rex cam. Its the largest cam you can fit into a stock motor. The reason why is that the biggest cam always makes the most power (not).... But, you have a LOT of end users who just assume bigger is always better. So, TSP built the biggest cam and sold a ton of them. Its what folks wanted. Even if you tell them it isn't what they want, they still want it because "bigger is better".

Whatever it is, people always assume bigger (rather than combination) is better. How much timing does my LS motor need. Heck, crank it up to 32-36º that is what we ran on the SBC, more timing always makes more power, right?

More duration makes more power, so if I want to make power when I move from a cathedral port to a square port I still need a big intake runner, right?

Again, bigger is always better....

So, Comp releases the XE, and it isn't enough. They keep increasing the lift per degree and we get LSK's and LSL, etc... Comp is giving folks what they ask for. Comp wouldn't be selling these lobes if all these shops weren't asking for them.

So, when you have folks looking to buy a cam form vendor X, and they can buy a similar cam from vendor Y that the other "internet heroes" on here made 10 more HP with, its hard to sell folks on going with a conservative lobe.

Trying to explain to folks why its better to make 10 less HP (-10HP) is sometimes like trying to teach a rock to do geometry.

The reasoning seems to go.

"I need a big cam 'cause I want to make big power what should I get?"

Ok, what springs do you have?

"I bought .650 lift springs so give me a cam that has .650 lift".

What kind of heads?

"I bought the XXXX heads (the cheapest heads I could find with the cheapest heaviest valves to go with them). That should be ok right? "

So, what kind of pushrods do you want .

"I dunno whatever is cheapest."

What kind of power do you want to make?

"As much as I can!!!"



The LS world is flooded with folks who have $3000 cars who don't care to spend the money needed to build the right combos. When you ask them to use any sense, that goes out the window and they just take their bad ideas to someone who will do it for them.

That is not to say everyone who had a failure was a cheapskate. I am sure there are meticulous people who trusted a shop to make an intelligent decision for them and want something that won't blow up their car.

The problem there is that anyone and their brother can bolt a cam into an LS motor, and they don't care as long as they are getting paid. There are plenty of shops who are just as bad (or worse) as folks who do it themselves and and just go "dot to dot".

The thing about the LS motor is we have all been valve event focused for the last 10 years as the heads are so good. But that focus has been around valve events. Too many people want to know what specs, but don't ask the bigger questions about the spring and pushrods, etc...

As has been stated over and over again, its combo, combo, combo

Now, that is not to excuse Comp and any QC issues, heat treating issues, etc...

I guess my question is are folks seeing failures on the milder lobes with single springs and a decent pushrod or are most of the failures folks seeing on the more aggressive cams with more aggressive springs with inadequate pushrods?

I want to be clear, I'm not a Comp fanboy, so I am not saying Comp has no issue here. What I am saying is that a lot of this is more of an education issue.

I do recognize that folks on this forum do look for leadership from the more prominent members and shops. If the issues are QC/Heat treating, I think some pressure directed to Comp might help adjust those issues.

On the other hand just educating users that they are going to have to spend X extra (light valves, better pushrods, etc...) if they want to use crazy lobe XYZ along with education to the shops selling them will help out dramatically on lobe failures due to bad combinations.

IMHO the pushrod is the most overlooked item in most folks engines. I think folks need to watch some video of a pushrod bending on a spintron machine, and then folks might get more serious about valve train deflection and weight.

Just my $0.02

 

Very good post. I always thought that when you do a cam, you need to address the entire valvetrain personally. Not just throw in a cam. Think lifters, springs, retainers, rockers, valves and pushrods. That being said, I did not do valves on this last cam that I put in, but I did get a fresh valve job. I did a trunion upgrade as many folks were saying that the stock rockers are quite good and are very light. Might I regret this later? Maybe. But I made the most informed decision I could at the time.

As you stated, many look to the internet and the more knowledgeable people in the forums when making these decisions. The tough part is weeding out the BS and the people just trying to sell parts!

 

Thanks for the post J-Rod. I was actually surprised it took you so long to weigh in. Understanding why there have been failures continues to be an interesting question for me as well...

 

Have you read the thread? Stock cams/lifters in completely stock engines are failing in the same manner. Comp doesn't build the valvetrain for GM. The problem is industry wide, affecting all manufacturers.