Holy moly, good to see you active on here Kip!

This is the second cam manufacturer who has said the surface finish after grinding isn't sufficient... hmmm...

 

Brian - I purchased one of your cams in November, just slid it in yesterday. Do I have anything to be concerned with?

 

We've been using Comp for our LS cams since the late 90's and we haven't had a single failure, knock on wood... so I think you should be fine.

Bear in mind that we tend to use conservative lobes and good springs/proper spring pressure.

I think we've been largely unaffected by these failures because we never used LSK lobes, like were so popular for so many years, and are still used by many other shops.

My problem with fast lobes is in back to back testing I've seen slower lobes make more power everywhere. I first saw this on my own chassis dyno back in 2001, and saw it most recently last year when I paid to have 18 cams tested back to back on a engine dyno. I had two cams with identical duration/LSA/ICL and only changed exhaust lift .030" and the lower exhaust lift cam made 10 lb/ft more torque everywhere.

Many of the cam gurus in years past simply picked lobes out of the catalog based on what was fast, and what had the highest lift. Everyone from the cam manufacturer to the consumer has paid the price for this indiscretion...

 

Truth^^^

 

Thanks Brian. I got your cam, springs and lifters for a reason.

 

Hi Brian
Thanks for the welcome. I have read a few threads on this site and would like to contribute more. There are quit a few tails about cam design that I would like to talk about. Could you let me know where to start this thread? Thanks Kip

 

Internal Gen III or Gen IV would be the place Kip.

 

I have seen quite a few failures with comps extreme energy flat tappets.

 

This is an INCREDIBLE thread . . . I have learned SO MUCH from it . . . THANK YOU ! ! !

 

Problem I have is nearly every time I read a post about a "bad cam", I never see anything but the mfg and grind making wild guesses about cam failures inconclusive.

Would be good to review which pushrods, lifters, rockers, install heights, RR, hydraulic/solid,preloads, pressures, spring mfg,retainers,spring diameter, valves, lifters,valve clearances, etc, etc.

I would think its possible to beat even the hardest cam to death given other components that don't match.

 

Oh god, it looks like we need to break out our tin foil hats now.

I should probably invest in aluminum foil stock soon...might make more from that than selling cams that will self implode upon start up.

 

Have you not seen the whining cam thread lately?

 

Yea I see your cam, two of my customers cams and maybe one other out of tens of thousands of other LS cams that don't whine.

That thread and this one makes it seem like any Comp cam or any other cam aside from a Cam Motion cam will implode upon start up of the engine after the cam is installed. Absolutely absurd.

I just had Comp Cams at our shop for over 5 hours today in person. Let me just say I think that a lot of what gets said on this site about Comp is absolutely absurd.

Any cam purchased from Tick Performance that whines will be replaced at no cost to the customer. JSteele please get in contact with me about replacing your cam as well.

It is not always caused by aggressive lobes. It is not caused by not polishing the lobes.

Comp is looking into the issue as we speak right now. It is not as complex or as maniacal as the internet makes it seem.

Chatter on the cam lobe can be caused by way more than what Kip eluded to. My problem with what Kip is doing is he has not made any other posts on this website other than the 20 or so he has now about why Comp is bad and Cam Motion is so great.

No other history. Just shows up and starts slinging mud. I believe the word he used is, "bad lobe design" can cause whining. Is he implying Comp has bad lobe designs? He never came out and said that specifically, but I felt that it was implied in his post.

A wheel being out of dress or a bearing going bad on the motor of the machine can induce chatter. Normally this is caught during quality control if it happens and it's caught before the cam even goes out the door.

It sounds like Cam Motion had a lot of issues with grinding their cams, Kip even admits it. Whether from bad cores or whining, whatever. Does that automatically mean that because Cam Motion had/has problems that Comp and every other manufacturer now does too? That's absurd. It's like saying someone is more likely to be on welfare because of the color of their skin.

The fact that Kip came on here and solicited his business while not being a sponsor is one thing. To say, "I will do it for free", is a cry for business. Is it a great thing he is doing? Sure!

THAT SAID! There would be no need if the VENDORS selling these cams would step up and speak with their cam manufacturers about these issues as I have! They need to take responsibility as well and not just lay it at Comp's feet. This is the problem with the industry. Blame game. It's always someone else fault.

As I said, any whining cam purchased from Tick will be replaced at no cost to the customer.

 

Oh god, Martin you didn't just sell me a ticking time bomb did you?

To be honest I am of the notion that anything you read on the internet is blown firstly out of proportion; and secondly is a matter of a few bad eggs that people get vocal about.

When you buy your tv brand from some store and take it home and it doesn't work....you complain and moan and xxx brand sucks and xxx store sucks. If you bring it home fire it up and it works....are you just as vocal with how great it is? You'll brag sure but you won't go to internet forums and overwhelmingly stir up drama over it. It works that's all that can be said.

I just purchased a cam from Martin. literally like a few hours ago.
I can tell you that even though our conversation over the phone was brief it was full of insightful info and our conversations over email and the forums has been a wealth of information and better understanding of my setup.

I trust his opinion and if he says Comp's are no worse then any other cam maker then I believe it. I've used comp in the past for a 383 sbc build. No issues at all also.

Now that doesn't mean a bad egg can't get out into the wild. There is such a thing as failure rate in any industry. An acceptable rate of failure is usually low. Less then 1% typically in the 0.01 percent range. When you make a million cams that means 1,000 might have an issue or a defect of some sort. It's considered acceptable loss.
It happens.

If the company is a good one they'll honor their agreements and fix any issue that arise.

And it's for this reason I trust Martin and Tick Performance.
It takes a great company/man to make a good product (Comp Cams) it takes an even bigger one to own up to any mistakes and make right if their is an issue. The fact Tick honors their work says a lot about them.

 

I would venture to say there are a lot more out there that you don't know about.

Just because it isn't reported doesn't mean it's not more common than you think. Not everyone is on the internet and not everyone thinks its a bad sound, so they don't report it. Lunati told me they had a bad run of cams in the mustang world that whined. You won't find that on the internet.



Why no mention of this 2-3 months ago when we started reporting this then? I know you were in that thread because there is a post of yours in there. Why weren't the comp cams warrantied right away if comp/you knew about this already?

The bottom line is NOTHINGwas happening and we were all absolutely dead in the water until Kip came into the thread and provided an explanation. Now he's here one week and people are suddenly getting their cams warrantied.

I'm grateful he came. I would be out $850 right now if he didn't. Not one single soul mentioned what he mentioned before he came. As helpful as Lunati was, even they said this was a new thing for tech support that only the engineers knew about.

The bottom line is, if Kip never shows up, no one is getting anything warrantied.

This was a month ago quote
I don't understand how you can talk to comp to 5 hours today and act like they seem to understand exactly what causes the problem, but never heard of the problem before according to Colt45.
Props to you for stepping up and replacing the cam for your customers, but it's a fact that comp left them dead in the water.

 

Hey Martin
1 I am a sponsor.
2 I did say a word about you cam company and did not say Cam Motion was great.
3 We did have problems with cams.
4 We fixed ours.
5 If we have a problem we don’t stick our head in the sand.
6 I have not tried to sell anything on this site.
7 The Whining thread has been up from 2/23/2006 why has no one found out what the problem was?
8 I did not say bad lobe design caused whining it can have some effect I said fine chatter did.
9 I did not say your cam company had bad lobe designs I do not need to say that.
10 QC can not measure fine chatter.
11 I am not slinging mud just helping if I can.
12 I hope this clears up a few things.

 

In the south, we would call these "Fightin Words".

 

1) My mistake, I apologize. I can admit when I am wrong unlike some people. You're a sponsor.

2)I don't work for comp.

3,4) So are you inferring comp has problems but hasn't fixed them. Do you have proof in your hand right now of this? Right now? Not from years ago. Right now?

5)Goes with number 3,4

6)"I will fix your cam for free" Do I need to link you to that post?

7)The whining thread was started about one of your cams. Not a comp cam.

8)Again I can post a link to where you inferred that bad "aggressive" lobe design as you said can cause sine waves and frequencies that cause whining. Did you not?

9) Instead of dancing around your words why don't you come out and say it?

10) I didn't specify what kind of QC did I? You sure assume a lot.

11) To me, it is my opinion your only intent to be on this site all of a sudden is to sling mud at comp. My opinion.

12) It does.

 

My rep came to our shop today. We spoke about this at length.

Any and all Tick Performance cams will be replaced that whine.

End of story.

Funny that Comp is actually replacing them and not Tick, but it is through my actions that brought this to their attention.

There needs to be more responsibility put on the VENDORS selling these products. Not blame Comp because they ground it.

 

Again, props to you for that. I think you are a great vendor and I recommend you when I can.

I was merely saying that I don't think anyone really knew about this issue and without Kip coming in to jump start it for us, we were all kind of screwed.

I agree that the vendor needs to step in more. I barely heard anything from mine, just to contact the cam company. Not happy at all about that and won't be using them or recommending them again. Service after the sale is really important for me, especially when I am paying extra for it.