wow this escalated quickly. Martin once again thank you for standing behind the products you sell and replacing my cam.

 

The way I see it. Only one side has slung the ****.

 

Ofcourse jonathan I know me you and james all stand behind him not that us three make a dent but theres a **** ton more people frankly he has to good of a reputation to start replying to a bitch fest with people here on tech

 

How about the first vendors to prove the issue gets all the glory. All the others are ******** lol.

 

Before the thread was closed ( I anticipated that it might be ), as is my "habit" for saving data, I copied and pasted the entire thing into WORD and saved it into my "archives". So, I have the entire original, up to and including this post, before any editing or deleting was done ( 320 pages in WORD ).

 

I like your style..

 

The internet has done a lot of great things. It brings out ideas, products, and knowledge at such a rate one can not absorb all of it. I know it has helped my business grow in custom cams tremendously.

The interent has also done a lot of bad things. Sitting behind a keyboard makes it real easy to say stuff to someone that is 800 miles away. I have learned that even negative stuff said can have a positive outcome. Most can read through the jibberish or Google search for more info about a product or a person.

Bottom line the only thing we have control over is ourselves. I worry about myself and my business and don't really care what the competition is doing because I know if I do what I do and make power for the customer then he or she will be back.

So concentrate on what you do and let your competitors concentrate on what they do.

 

Thank you, sir !

I have been around internet forums long enough to have learned "copy it, paste it, & save it . . . before it gets deleted, edited, or the website disappears" !

 

LOL, damn. I hope some good can come from here. We all stand to learn "something", me included. When you are narrow minded, you learn nothing though.

 

And it is for this reason ^^^^ I side with Martin.

 

If a picture of a building makes up your mind on a cam design. Have fun in the slow lane.


The MAIN issue I see on any forum and this one specifically is a sponsor's word is gold because they spend money and people are scared to speak against them for fear of reprimand.

Martin may be a awesome guy in person. But I'll never use him, just based on his posts.

 

I agree 100% with everything here. I think Tick is a great company and Martin is obviously very knowledgeable but based on what happened here and how it was handled I dont think my business would go there. One guy's car was already cured of whining by installing a cam motion cam and the only denominator changing was the cam. In that case there is no denying that the problem was in fact the comp core. I think that in itself shows there is merit to all these people including sponsors and cam grinders like Geoff complaining about the comp cams being sub par on a few levels and hopefully now QC at comp will get better.

 

I realize that this thread brings a negative light to my business and that it may be best to let threads like this die. With that said, I'm going to give my thoughts on a few things and then I will be done with this thread.....I am far too busy to bicker on forums, but so is Martin.

In Martins defense, he is one of the hardest working employees we have and IMO he is by far the most passionate about our industry and racing as a whole. He eats, breathes, and sleeps this stuff and is a huge asset to our business and the community we are all a part of. His knowledge concerning camshaft design amazes me, and his lack of 'real world' experience makes it that much more impressive. He has a true god given talent, and if given another 20 or 30 years in the industry he will have all of that 'real world' experience that a very small percentage of people can't seem to let go even though his cams are producing positive results.... Everyone starts somewhere.

Despite the opinion of some that Martin only has a small following and he is inexperienced, we still sell a whole lot of cams. About 8-10 a day to be exact. We're Tooleys #1 vendor as a result from selling his spring kits. Martin has gained a whole lot of experience, and he has done it in a short period of time. He works hard, both during the sale and after.

I haven't read the entire thread on here, just from page 19 through the end. Martin does come off a bit strong at times; partly because of his age...but mostly because of his passion. His job is to sell camshafts, and in this day and age part of that involves the internet. As long as he works for Tick, he will be expected to generate buzz by creating thread and offering product sales and services. I agree that he should choose his battles more wisely....and should steer clear of creating battles, but his good by far out weighs the few times I wish he would simply hush. For now, the experience I wish he would gain has nothing to do with cam design, but rather it is experience on how to handle himself when sitting behind the key board.

I have purchased one or two Cam Motion cams a few years ago before Martin came along. I chose Cam Motion then because I felt the tech support that I received from them was more knowledgeable than the guys I'd get on the Comp tech line. For all I know it could have been Kip. We weren't a dealer for either company back in those days... Now that we sell 8-10 Comp cams a day, I can see how Martin would defend Comp on any thread that casts a negative light on Comp. If Cam Motion comes along and steals Comps thunder by offering a few free or discounted cams to customers that are having problems with Comp, then Cam Motion also stole our thunder in a sense. Yes, we could sell another brand of camshaft if Comp chose to leave their customers hanging with faulty camshafts....in fact we would be forced to. However, it is my understanding that Tick/Martin and Comp have and are offering to remedy the situation as well.

I understand what Cam Motion is doing, and it isn't solely to provide help to the community and shed light on a mysterious issue. Partly, they offered their free or discounted services to a few guys having problems to gain a footing in a section of the camshaft industry that IMO is dominated by Comp. A section that is probably growing faster than any other also: the LS community. Yes, it does shed light on a problem that apparently needs to be addressed better and I applaud Kip for that but his motives for giving product and services away were not offered just to make a couple of new friends.

I don't know how much Comp knows about these whining cams or why it happens, but what I do know is our little shop alone is selling probably 150+ cams per month and whining cam shafts are not a huge issue. In our 11 years of business in this industry we have not installed a single camshaft that whined from any cam Manufacturer.

I will be the first to admit that I know very little about camshaft design. I know what has worked and what hasn't based on experience, so it that regard I'm the experience and Martin is the knowledge. Together along with 8 others we make up our team. No one should really care that Martin is only 25 years old if OUR cams are yielding positive results, and I'm sure if OUR cams were junk we wouldn't be selling 150+ cams a month. Our shelf cams which so many people want to beat down were all first approved by me based on real world experience on what works and what doesn't. No, we haven't dyno tested 10+ cams of every single spec we've ever sold. Custom cams are just that....they are custom and done one at a time.

I'd like to say again that I have used a Cam Motion cam or two and had good results several years ago. With that said, common sense would tell anyone that there will be more camshaft 'issues' with Comp Cams that probably any other brand of camshaft out there because Comp sells more cams than anyone else. In other words, if Comp sells 50 times more cams that Cam Motion, Comp would have 50 times more faulty cams while maintaining the same failure rate.... 50 times more is just an example obviously, but I'm sure the number is staggering based on the numbers we sell alone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Tick Performance or Martin Smallwood, but from the person that signs Martins paycheck every week I feel like he is doing just fine.

-Jonathan
_______________

 

Well said Johnathan.

 

Great post Jonathon.

 

It wasn't a quote for the picture. I would have thought that was obvious.

 

Yeah that was me, but in comp's defense, it was two Lunati cores. I bought a Lunati cam through Ed Curtis, it whined, but ran well. I purchased another Lunati core because I figured, if this one didn't whine, then Lunati would refund me the first one, but it whined even louder.

So now I had two whining cams. Everyone thought it was highly unlikely to have two whining cam cores in a row and it must be something else, but lo and behold, Kip's cam goes in and the whine is gone just like he called it.

The fact that I had two whining cams in a row, with 6 months between orders, tells me this issue is more prevalent than the vendors and manufacturers lead on.

My theory is that since it sounds very much like a power steering or alternator whine, people just write it off as that and don't even think it's the cam at all or don't even care about the noise because it's not a "tap" or "knock".

The more and more we bump the whining thread, the more people come in to say they have the same noise.

Lunati's customer service was good though. They took the time to take my cam in and fully inspect it, much more than just taking a few measurements. They got back to me and said they did indeed find an issue with the core.

If you ask the people in that thread, they got no help from Comp. In the end, the cam manufacturer is the responsible party, they are the ones that need to step up and that is the reason they have a dedicated technical support staff for this very purpose. The guys in that thread are lucky that Tick has great customer service and are stepping up though.

 

mchicia1... so you had Lunati cores? I thought in the other thread you said you had Comp? Did you buy directly from Ed Curtis?

 

No, I was the only Lunati in that thread. The rest were comp cams I believe. I did a lot of searching for videos, and did link to a few comp cam whining youtube videos, so maybe that is why you thought I had a comp.

I bought from flowtech, yes. Not his fault, obviously, however.

 

did lunati refund you your money after you bought the Cam Motion cam?