Pics Of My Advanced Induction Dart/RHS 223cc Heads/Build Thread
11-13-2013, 08:06 AM
#281
Yep, Kent (9sectruck) is right. The car needs a new fuel pump, which it will get. Our original plan was to set the rev limiter at 7000, but due to fuel pressure drop, it was set at 6700. The shift light is set at 6500 rpms and that is where I shift it at and that's where I took the pulls to on the dyno.
The plan will be to get the dyno rented for an hour, me and Kent will roll up there and he can hone things in on the dyno. That way, he can mess around with timing and see what the setup likes. I'm sure after that, it will yield some better numbers. I'm still going to try to get a few runs in with Dirtbag next week. His setup is a proven 440 rwhp setup and our cars weigh roughly the same. That will give me a good idea how this dyno reads.
The plan will be to get the dyno rented for an hour, me and Kent will roll up there and he can hone things in on the dyno. That way, he can mess around with timing and see what the setup likes. I'm sure after that, it will yield some better numbers. I'm still going to try to get a few runs in with Dirtbag next week. His setup is a proven 440 rwhp setup and our cars weigh roughly the same. That will give me a good idea how this dyno reads.
11-13-2013, 09:33 AM
#285
I didn't realize the Stainless Works headers have 2.5" collectors. That will definitely hurt torque output.
To be honest, throw some TSP 1-7/8" headers on there if you don't want to blow up your budget or ARH/Kooks 1-7/8" headers with the HVMC. You'll probably pick up 20rwhp with just that change and close to that in torque. Iron out the tune issues and you could see 440rwhp and 400rwt.
To be honest, throw some TSP 1-7/8" headers on there if you don't want to blow up your budget or ARH/Kooks 1-7/8" headers with the HVMC. You'll probably pick up 20rwhp with just that change and close to that in torque. Iron out the tune issues and you could see 440rwhp and 400rwt.
whatever reason the LS engines LOVE big free flowing headers..especially
with the merge collectors. I gained more than 4 tenths and more than 3 mph
with a header/cat upgrade and no retune. This with a -12 overlap cam; +8
deg exhaust timing; and heads that flow 90% E/I ratio.
The OP probably has injectors that will support 100 more rwhp than he's
trying to make; a fuel pump that seems to be over taxed; and an intake that
could use an upgrade; however I'd ALWAYS take a killer cylinder head with a
few not perfect parts than a bunch of awesome stuff bolted to crappy heads.
I can't imagine that his tune is off by a bunch (based on his description of
how it runs)...it's NOT the cam or the heads...most likely just a heartbreaker
of a dyno. I'd suggest dragging that bitch ASAP...it'll top 120 for sure...then
when funds allow sell your bolt-on friendly headers for some big stuff and re
run it where I'd bet it'll go 123-124 (assuming full weight) and at that point
who cares what the dyno says...that's a fast ******* car.
11-13-2013, 10:07 AM
#286
I agree with this here if any one single change should be considered. For
whatever reason the LS engines LOVE big free flowing headers..especially
with the merge collectors. I gained more than 4 tenths and more than 3 mph
with a header/cat upgrade and no retune. This with a -12 overlap cam; +8
deg exhaust timing; and heads that flow 90% E/I ratio.
The OP probably has injectors that will support 100 more rwhp than he's
trying to make; a fuel pump that seems to be over taxed; and an intake that
could use an upgrade; however I'd ALWAYS take a killer cylinder head with a
few not perfect parts than a bunch of awesome stuff bolted to crappy heads.
I can't imagine that his tune is off by a bunch (based on his description of
how it runs)...it's NOT the cam or the heads...most likely just a heartbreaker
of a dyno. I'd suggest dragging that bitch ASAP...it'll top 120 for sure...then
when funds allow sell your bolt-on friendly headers for some big stuff and re
run it where I'd bet it'll go 123-124 (assuming full weight) and at that point
who cares what the dyno says...that's a fast ******* car.
whatever reason the LS engines LOVE big free flowing headers..especially
with the merge collectors. I gained more than 4 tenths and more than 3 mph
with a header/cat upgrade and no retune. This with a -12 overlap cam; +8
deg exhaust timing; and heads that flow 90% E/I ratio.
The OP probably has injectors that will support 100 more rwhp than he's
trying to make; a fuel pump that seems to be over taxed; and an intake that
could use an upgrade; however I'd ALWAYS take a killer cylinder head with a
few not perfect parts than a bunch of awesome stuff bolted to crappy heads.
I can't imagine that his tune is off by a bunch (based on his description of
how it runs)...it's NOT the cam or the heads...most likely just a heartbreaker
of a dyno. I'd suggest dragging that bitch ASAP...it'll top 120 for sure...then
when funds allow sell your bolt-on friendly headers for some big stuff and re
run it where I'd bet it'll go 123-124 (assuming full weight) and at that point
who cares what the dyno says...that's a fast ******* car.
I know the headers and intake are a restriction at this point. I'll sell off the headers I have and get some different ones. What should I be looking for, as in brands? I know I'm going to need 1 7/8" primaries with at least a 3" collector, but would like a 3.5" collector. Keep in mind I'm going to need to do this as budget friendly as possible.
11-13-2013, 10:08 AM
#287
Also, on a funny note. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing, so when the guy told me to let it rip, I literally went at it like I was getting after it at the track or on the highway; starting in first and running through the grears. I had no idea I was supposed to be making 4th gear pulls. Pretty much felt like a dumbass.
11-13-2013, 10:45 AM
#288
yep, 93 octane all the way. I guess i'm not understanding what you're saying.
Also, on a funny note. I had no idea what i was supposed to be doing, so when the guy told me to let it rip, i literally went at it like i was getting after it at the track or on the highway; starting in first and running through the grears. I had no idea i was supposed to be making 4th gear pulls. Pretty much felt like a dumbass.
Also, on a funny note. I had no idea what i was supposed to be doing, so when the guy told me to let it rip, i literally went at it like i was getting after it at the track or on the highway; starting in first and running through the grears. I had no idea i was supposed to be making 4th gear pulls. Pretty much felt like a dumbass.
let her rip
11-13-2013, 11:56 AM
#290
Yep, 93 octane all the way. I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying.
Also, on a funny note. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing, so when the guy told me to let it rip, I literally went at it like I was getting after it at the track or on the highway; starting in first and running through the grears. I had no idea I was supposed to be making 4th gear pulls. Pretty much felt like a dumbass.
Also, on a funny note. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing, so when the guy told me to let it rip, I literally went at it like I was getting after it at the track or on the highway; starting in first and running through the grears. I had no idea I was supposed to be making 4th gear pulls. Pretty much felt like a dumbass.
11-13-2013, 12:35 PM
#291
Thats funny, live and learn. Usually people want go OLSD to run some leaded fuel or other high octane stuff (kills narrow band sensors fast, even widebands). These fuels do not have a stoich value of 12.5, thats why I asked. I hate AFR, lambda is so much better. If I were you I'd just throw a set of TSP's 1-7/8" LT's and a racetronix pump/hotwire kit on there and call it a day. Of course I know how it is with a family taking up money and time, these are just toys, so even little projects take forever!!
11-13-2013, 12:49 PM
#292
Contrary to popular belief, SD tunes do have AFR swing. Your car sounds like it was street tuned months ago, but just got on the dyno recently = your afr was probably not the same as when it was tuned.
I have seen as much as 10% AFR swing in my own car on different track days. Not to mention, if you have any IAT heat soak, your afr is going to be lean. IATs heatsoak big time sitting on a dyno because of the heat generated from WOT.
Not only is SD not as precise as MAF, but your making it even worse by running open loop with no 02 sensors bringing you back to stoich. That won't affect your power, but it will affect drivability.
Removing the maf will gain you some power, but only on the day it was tuned. As soon as that AFR swings, you just lost the advantage. I like the MAF for the consistency.
11-13-2013, 12:59 PM
#294
Huh? SD tune has nothing to do with 02 sensors. You must be thinking of open and closed loop. Speed density is just a method that uses the VE table, MAP, and the iat sensor to estimate the air mass entering your engine. It will never be precise as a MAF, which is actually metering the air mass.
Contrary to popular belief, SD tunes do have AFR swing. Your car sounds like it was street tuned months ago, but just got on the dyno recently = your afr was probably not the same as when it was tuned.
I have seen as much as 10% AFR swing in my own car on different track days. Not to mention, if you have any IAT heat soak, your afr is going to be lean. IATs heatsoak big time sitting on a dyno because of the heat generated from WOT.
Not only is SD not as precise as MAF, but your making it even worse by running open loop with no 02 sensors bringing you back to stoich. That won't affect your power, but it will affect drivability.
Removing the maf will gain you some power, but only on the day it was tuned. As soon as that AFR swings, you just lost the advantage. I like the MAF for the consistency.
Contrary to popular belief, SD tunes do have AFR swing. Your car sounds like it was street tuned months ago, but just got on the dyno recently = your afr was probably not the same as when it was tuned.
I have seen as much as 10% AFR swing in my own car on different track days. Not to mention, if you have any IAT heat soak, your afr is going to be lean. IATs heatsoak big time sitting on a dyno because of the heat generated from WOT.
Not only is SD not as precise as MAF, but your making it even worse by running open loop with no 02 sensors bringing you back to stoich. That won't affect your power, but it will affect drivability.
Removing the maf will gain you some power, but only on the day it was tuned. As soon as that AFR swings, you just lost the advantage. I like the MAF for the consistency.
Good stuff there. You are correct; the car received it's final tune on July 5th, 2013 in which it was tuned Open Loop SD. The car was taken to the dyno on Monday, so that's about 4 months. Also, I drove the car over an hour to where it got put on the dyno, with the only cool down time occuring while he got the car on the rollers and secured down. Could that play into the dyno readings?
I may just go back to a MAF tune. I'll need to buy new O2's because one was crapping out on me before the Open Loop SD tune. So you are saying that a MAF tune will keep the A/F readings more in consistant?
11-13-2013, 02:27 PM
#297
Good stuff there. You are correct; the car received it's final tune on July 5th, 2013 in which it was tuned Open Loop SD. The car was taken to the dyno on Monday, so that's about 4 months. Also, I drove the car over an hour to where it got put on the dyno, with the only cool down time occuring while he got the car on the rollers and secured down. Could that play into the dyno readings?
I may just go back to a MAF tune. I'll need to buy new O2's because one was crapping out on me before the Open Loop SD tune. So you are saying that a MAF tune will keep the A/F readings more in consistant?
I may just go back to a MAF tune. I'll need to buy new O2's because one was crapping out on me before the Open Loop SD tune. So you are saying that a MAF tune will keep the A/F readings more in consistant?
Geoff is yelling at me for grabbing the TSP 100mm MAF. We're going to try to get it dialed in before I let him convince me of running SD. I'd prefer having the MAF for when the temperature changes wildly, which occurs daily here 5-6 months out of the year. The other 6 are just hot. All the time. The 6 months of variance can be hot as hell or freezing cold. In the same day.
11-13-2013, 02:28 PM
#298
If you dial in the IAT vs ect and stick the sensor in the front bumper or some other place for fresh air the SD tune is fine. Not to mention idle quality is better without the MAF crap, and throttle response, and you can easily run a hwy lean cruise group of cell's. Or you can disable the IAT vs ECT crap all together. I was hoping the new HPT SD OS did away with all that BS though. Im still on the old serial cable, just bought the new pro setup! Now if only I had a car to tune.
For a new SS header (even though they're Chinese crap SS) they cant be beat. They fit a million times better than the ebay chinese ones and they should bolt directly to your TSP TD's. Used is good too, I just sold my Kooks 1-7/8 a couple weeks ago for $600. Just have to sit around on classifieds all day cuz the good stuff goes quick
For a new SS header (even though they're Chinese crap SS) they cant be beat. They fit a million times better than the ebay chinese ones and they should bolt directly to your TSP TD's. Used is good too, I just sold my Kooks 1-7/8 a couple weeks ago for $600. Just have to sit around on classifieds all day cuz the good stuff goes quick
11-13-2013, 02:43 PM
#299
The car will more then likely stay in SD in less you really want it with maf.
iat/ect sensor have been set to adj fueling.
If you can lets put the WB back in this weekend and see how far if any the afrs are off.
In my opinion SD/open loop is the steadiest afr reading driving or wot.
yes in extreme weather change the afr do move but in my experience not enough to justify a new tune for te winter to summer temps.
As stated in early post the afrs (as of the day delivered) where around 12.5/12.7..
iat/ect sensor have been set to adj fueling.
If you can lets put the WB back in this weekend and see how far if any the afrs are off.
In my opinion SD/open loop is the steadiest afr reading driving or wot.
yes in extreme weather change the afr do move but in my experience not enough to justify a new tune for te winter to summer temps.
As stated in early post the afrs (as of the day delivered) where around 12.5/12.7..
11-13-2013, 02:49 PM
#300
If you dial in the IAT vs ect and stick the sensor in the front bumper or some other place for fresh air the SD tune is fine. Not to mention idle quality is better without the MAF crap, and throttle response, and you can easily run a hwy lean cruise group of cell's. Or you can disable the IAT vs ECT crap all together. I was hoping the new HPT SD OS did away with all that BS though. Im still on the old serial cable, just bought the new pro setup! Now if only I had a car to tune.
For a new SS header (even though they're Chinese crap SS) they cant be beat. They fit a million times better than the ebay chinese ones and they should bolt directly to your TSP TD's. Used is good too, I just sold my Kooks 1-7/8 a couple weeks ago for $600. Just have to sit around on classifieds all day cuz the good stuff goes quick
For a new SS header (even though they're Chinese crap SS) they cant be beat. They fit a million times better than the ebay chinese ones and they should bolt directly to your TSP TD's. Used is good too, I just sold my Kooks 1-7/8 a couple weeks ago for $600. Just have to sit around on classifieds all day cuz the good stuff goes quick