Pushrod Length Method - does this work for Morels?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Pace, FL
Pushrod Length Method - does this work for Morels? So, I've seen the following method as a way to check for lifter preload with LS7/Comp 850 lifters and wonder if I can use it with Morels? I'd just use the stock length pushrod (since it's known) and run the Morels with it.
My concern is the stock length pushrod would be way too long, and I'd get no usable measurement doing it. That means adjustable pushrod, checker spring, and valvespring removal tool will need to be ordered for my swap.
Anywhere, he is the method:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
My concern is the stock length pushrod would be way too long, and I'd get no usable measurement doing it. That means adjustable pushrod, checker spring, and valvespring removal tool will need to be ordered for my swap.
Anywhere, he is the method:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
Calculations need to be corrected with rocker ratio and a few other things.
The Morels are taller and require less preload. I found 0.100" less than stock is a good guess.
Personally, I would take the measurement directly with an adjustable to ensure correct length. As for tools, only required tool is the adjustable pushrod assuming you have your wipe pattern correct already otherwise you need to to that first.
The Morels are taller and require less preload. I found 0.100" less than stock is a good guess.
Personally, I would take the measurement directly with an adjustable to ensure correct length. As for tools, only required tool is the adjustable pushrod assuming you have your wipe pattern correct already otherwise you need to to that first.
The method you describe, aka "Shanes" method involves some error, more fully discussed here:https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...re-load-2.html.
The Morels (at least when I did mine) have a smaller range the OEM type lifters and like about 0.050" preload (if memory serves). I would use an adjustable pushrod. I also used Manton pushrods so I could order exact overall length (and other reasons.)
The Morels (at least when I did mine) have a smaller range the OEM type lifters and like about 0.050" preload (if memory serves). I would use an adjustable pushrod. I also used Manton pushrods so I could order exact overall length (and other reasons.)
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Yeah, it's Shane's method.
vettenuts, I'd just need the adjustable pushrod? I'm using stock rocker, so the wipe pattern is going to be garbage anyway. How can I just use the adjustable pushrod? Wouldn't the valvesprings collapse the lifter?
I'm figuring somewhere in the 7.275" range. I want to measure and be right on the money around .050" preload with the Morels.
vettenuts, I'd just need the adjustable pushrod? I'm using stock rocker, so the wipe pattern is going to be garbage anyway. How can I just use the adjustable pushrod? Wouldn't the valvesprings collapse the lifter?
I'm figuring somewhere in the 7.275" range. I want to measure and be right on the money around .050" preload with the Morels.
With Morels you generally need .075" to .100" shorter pushrod so with a 7.400" you'll be close to bottoming out the lifter before it starts torquing up (I believe they have .143" travel). I don't think that really matters using your method since you are just measuring the distance from 0 lash to 22 ft-lbs, although bottoming will certainly affect the torque. FYI - In my experience with Morels I tried 4 sets of pushrods before using one long enough to make them tolerable (quiet enough). I ended up with a 7.325" BTR pushrod that gives me about .100" preload. There are several threads about the Morels, saying more preload is quieter.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Nevermind, I see now.
Once I get the cylinder to TDC, I set to 0 lash with the adjustable pushrod length checker. So I'll make a guess on the low side of what I need, and adjust from there for 0 lash.
Once I have 0 lash, I'll add my preload to the checker tool's length to find the pushrod length I'll need.
To verify, I'll then torque down the factory pedestal with the Comp tool set at the pushrod length I just calculated. Then, using Shane's method, I should be able to verify preload with based on number of turns to get to 22ft-lbs.
Sounds pretty easy.
Once I get the cylinder to TDC, I set to 0 lash with the adjustable pushrod length checker. So I'll make a guess on the low side of what I need, and adjust from there for 0 lash.
Once I have 0 lash, I'll add my preload to the checker tool's length to find the pushrod length I'll need.
To verify, I'll then torque down the factory pedestal with the Comp tool set at the pushrod length I just calculated. Then, using Shane's method, I should be able to verify preload with based on number of turns to get to 22ft-lbs.
Sounds pretty easy.
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Yeah, it's Shane's method.
vettenuts, I'd just need the adjustable pushrod? I'm using stock rocker, so the wipe pattern is going to be garbage anyway. How can I just use the adjustable pushrod? Wouldn't the valvesprings collapse the lifter?
I'm figuring somewhere in the 7.275" range. I want to measure and be right on the money around .050" preload with the Morels.
vettenuts, I'd just need the adjustable pushrod? I'm using stock rocker, so the wipe pattern is going to be garbage anyway. How can I just use the adjustable pushrod? Wouldn't the valvesprings collapse the lifter?
I'm figuring somewhere in the 7.275" range. I want to measure and be right on the money around .050" preload with the Morels.
Also, when I did mine I found if I wasn't very gentle lifting the rocker tip it would compress the plunger.
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Verdad Gallardo What I was told by Morel was to submerge the lifter in oil and rotate the roller prior to installation. I did not soak them in oil for an extended time in an effort to fill them. I also used Redline Assembly Lube as it dissolves as soon as the oil hits it. Rotating the roller was a messy job.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Makes sense. I'm picking up some Joe Gibbs or Redline assembly lube this weekend. Most of the ARP stuff I bought comes with their packets of lube. I'll get some Loctite too and start having fun.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
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From: Pace, FL
Okay, one more question - the next thing I need to check is PtV clearance. I have a dial indicator I just bought affixed to an 8mm bolt (hope this works). I had planned on using a stock lifter modified to a solid with the Comp PR Checker and stock head gasket. That shouldn't have any affect on PtV vs the Morel lifter, correct? I'm still getting 0 lash with the setup and just trying to hold open the valve through the cycle to check for interference without any preload or lash.
And I hadn't planned on using checker springs, but for the dial indicator to work best, I may pick up a set so I can depress the valve at 5 degree intervals or so from 15 BTDC through 15 ATDC with my fingers. I'll 0 out the dial indicator after I depress the valve and whatever the measurement is as the rocker comes back will be my PtV, correct? I'll probably end up getting the Comp Degree Wheel Kit, even though the Camshaft has been cam doctored, just so I can ensure the crank and cam are aligned and so I can use the degree wheel to accurately measure PtV with the dial indicator. Sigh. More money on tools I'll use once or twice, lol.
And whatever measurement I get, I'll have to subtract .011" from to make up for the difference from the 02 MLS gasket and .040" Cometic. I don't want to install the Cometic until it's time to actually install it.
And I hadn't planned on using checker springs, but for the dial indicator to work best, I may pick up a set so I can depress the valve at 5 degree intervals or so from 15 BTDC through 15 ATDC with my fingers. I'll 0 out the dial indicator after I depress the valve and whatever the measurement is as the rocker comes back will be my PtV, correct? I'll probably end up getting the Comp Degree Wheel Kit, even though the Camshaft has been cam doctored, just so I can ensure the crank and cam are aligned and so I can use the degree wheel to accurately measure PtV with the dial indicator. Sigh. More money on tools I'll use once or twice, lol.
And whatever measurement I get, I'll have to subtract .011" from to make up for the difference from the 02 MLS gasket and .040" Cometic. I don't want to install the Cometic until it's time to actually install it.
Last edited by JakeFusion; Jun 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM.
Wish I could help you out on the morels. My engine builder did the install on mine so no idea on preload. But with an adjustable pushrod length checker and torque wrench, you should be just fine after consulting morel on their recommended preload. 
For PTV, since you have the dial indicator, get the check springs and use that method. For the gasket, take the used GM stock and remove one layer, it will be approximately 0.040" thick when you do. For measuring, go every 2 degrees otherwise you may miss the minimum.
One thing to be careful of if using the new Morel lifter is it will stick in the up position in the tray so as the cam lobe goes by and the lifter should be going down it may not be. If you are replacing the trays use use on of your old trays and open the lifter hole with sandpaper or dremel so the lifter easily slides or is a tad loose.
One thing to be careful of if using the new Morel lifter is it will stick in the up position in the tray so as the cam lobe goes by and the lifter should be going down it may not be. If you are replacing the trays use use on of your old trays and open the lifter hole with sandpaper or dremel so the lifter easily slides or is a tad loose.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
The Morels are link bars. So no more trays. I plan to convert two of my old lifters to solid and just reuse one of the trays for the PtV testing and degreeing.
And that's good info on the stock MLS gaskets and making them .040". Also, I could check at every degree on the degree wheel since it won't take long at all. Turn, depress, zero out, and check the value. I'm really hoping I clear .060" intake.
I ended up ordering the Comp Checker springs and Comp Degree kit from Amazon and the Trickflow Spring Compressor from Summit so I can easily swap the springs. That'll be a good tool to have on hand anyway.
And that's good info on the stock MLS gaskets and making them .040". Also, I could check at every degree on the degree wheel since it won't take long at all. Turn, depress, zero out, and check the value. I'm really hoping I clear .060" intake.
I ended up ordering the Comp Checker springs and Comp Degree kit from Amazon and the Trickflow Spring Compressor from Summit so I can easily swap the springs. That'll be a good tool to have on hand anyway.
Good news is, you'll be able to do it again (and reuse your tools) when you build the LS3 stroker that will eneviaitably ensue after this build.
Looking forward to the results when you get her together!
Also, why are you measuring PTV? Is the cam big enough to where you will need to flycut?