If I were to go with a stroker kit, say a 38x, would the goal of 10's be attainable with the 3660lb weight? How radical would such a setup have to be? Could it go 10's on DR's?

Thanks for the advice on weight reduction, but I want the car to be able to go 10's in the same condition as when I drive it on the street. I might get a lighter hood, but I'm not going to take the bumper off or remove the sway bar or anything. I suppose that I would be interested in any weight reduction advice that didn't affect drivability in any way.

 

I have ran a bunch of 10.70 passes with heads and cam .. my race weight was down to 3270 or so but if I was to add 250 pounds I would be around the 10.9 range and the DA when I made these passes was anywhere from -200 to +200. This was all done with

Cartek 2x LS6 heads
Cartek 224/228 580 lift 113 lsa cam
cartek clutch
Moser 9" rear 4.11 gears ET-Drags 26x10x15
a good TQ arm and Hal shocks
and all the good bolt on's

Don't belive everyone when they tell you that you need a big cam to run the numbers what you need is a well set up package. My cam is small by today standards and it was trapping 127+ mph

 

If you could really pull 1.5x 60ft then at 10.99 becomes a lot easier, so I would say bolt ons, heads/cam (maybe even not to radical, maybe even something along the lines of 22x-22x and high lift and ported(unported) LS6 heads), 12 bolt, serious suspension mods and slicks. But hell what do I know, I have a high 13 sec car.

 

What John said. My car weighs 3500 lbs. The best I have run on a killer air day is 11.15. My car runs 11.3x on a 0 - + 400 DA day. I can get through the gears and get the car launched. I run DOT QTP's, and slicks would help me 60' better, but I drive my car to the track, and don't like changing tires there. Weighing 3300 lbs will make it easier to 60', and as John said, be easier on parts. To get 10's at 3500 lbs I think you need the following:

4.30-4.56 gear
28" slicks
good air
440-450 sae hp
suspension for a 1.50 60'
track prep
driving skills

Reduce your weight to 3300 and 4.30's would be good. My car weighs 3505 and I run 4.57's in a 9" and cut 1.57 60's. (still working on new setup).

Bruce

 

You're gonna have to make sacrifices to run 10's. Suspension is gonna need some work, keeping the sway bar probably isn't an option.

To run 10's at that power level you need a perfectly dialed in car. Not a stock car with a h/c package. Be realistic. Look at what times MOST h/c guys are running. Then look at the fastest h/c guys and see the difference.

Low weight, drag suspension, 15" drag tires front/rear, cutout, etc.

And don't worry about the sway bar, it doesn't do too much with skinnies in the front anyway

 

Thanks, guys, for all the advice about weight reduction, but it just isn't pertinant to my situation. I'm looking for the car to run 10's in the same condition that it drives on the street. So like I said, a lighter hood would do, but removing the bumper or "making sacrifices" isn't going to fly.

I mean, I might take out the air conditioning or something, but we can save questions like that for another day.

The question at hand is: with the least involved/expensive stroker kit, and H/C designed for said stroker, could I hit the 10's with an M6 and a 3660lb weight? If so, how radical would the setup have to be? (i.e. what gears, does it need race gas, can it be done with a hydraulic setup, etc)

 

So you want to do it on DRs.....hmmm, that'll be interesting!!!

With DRs I would say go with a 427 ci and a supercharger or turbos, then you can get into the 10s babying it off the line, could probably keep the stock rear too if you baby it enough.

 

You're looking at doing this the wrong way.

If you don't want to use nitrous and you want to do it full weight and you want it to be perfectly streetable you'll need at least $20,000 to do what you want to do.

Is that the direction you're looking to take with this car?

 

Agreed...its gonna take alot of time and money to do it under the restrictions you are making. Its gonna have to be large cubes for sure.

 

No, I don't require that it be done on DR's. I was just asking if it was possible with the 38x stroker, and if so, how radical would the setup have to be?

(i.e. what gears, does it need race gas, can it be done with a hydraulic setup, etc)

 

Gears aren't radical in an M6. Even 4.56 is streetable. You'll probably end up with less than 4.30 gears which is nothing with the .5 overdrive.

This would be easier with 422+ cubes, not 383 or so.

Won't have to have race gas.

Yes it can be hydraulic.

Go to the drag racing section. Look up the time slips. Look at what the absolute fastest N/A guys are running. Now look at their race weights. Now look at the tranny they have.

Check the sponsors and search the forum, look for the prices people are paying for a big cube motor, then add tranny, rear, and all the other car prep you're going to have to do to run that number. You'll also be at least 100 lbs heavier when you get all the equipment to run 10's (rear and cage adding most of it).

When all is said and done, you'll probably need about 550 RWHP to do it with the ridiculous restraints you've placed on this idea.

Only a handful of N/A LS1 engines make that much power.

And only a handful of guys even bother to try and go fast with a 3800 lb race weight.

 

"Gears aren't radical in an M6. Even 4.56 is streetable. You'll probably end up with less than 4.30 gears which is nothing with the .5 overdrive."

Good to know. Thanks.

"This would be easier with 422+ cubes, not 383 or so."

I ask because I was under the impression that a 38x setup would be a lot less expensive than anything larger because increasing bore takes more money. Also, with a larger bore I would not spin it as high and would therefore get more valvetrain longevity. At least, that is my understanding. Anyone feel free to correct any misconceptions I have here.

"Won't have to have race gas.

Yes it can be hydraulic."

Good to know.

"Go to the drag racing section. Look up the time slips. Look at what the absolute fastest N/A guys are running. Now look at their race weights. Now look at the tranny they have."

I did this a bit, but the database doesn't let you search with more than one option, plus information about hydraulic or solid is often left out.

"Check the sponsors and search the forum, look for the prices people are paying for a big cube motor"

I plan to just buy the parts and I have a source to build it. I will, of course, look at the sponsors for parts.

"You'll also be at least 100 lbs heavier when you get all the equipment to run 10's (rear and cage adding most of it)."

Ah, yes. Good to know. Would the necessary suspension bits (torque arm, driveshaft, etc) add weight as well?

"When all is said and done, you'll probably need about 550 RWHP to do it with the ridiculous restraints you've placed on this idea."

I have my reasons. There are a lot of restrictions, but at least I know what I want, unlike some people.

"Only a handful of N/A LS1 engines make that much power.

And only a handful of guys even bother to try and go fast with a 3800 lb race weight."

Hey, what can I say, I'm unique. Like I said, I will consider "wallet mods" for weight reduction, so long as they do not affect the streetability of the car (like lightweight seats, lightweight hood, removing AIR, and things of that nature). I will of course welcome any suggestions along these lines.

Truth be told, I'm gathering this info so that I can find out how much it will cost. I then plan on shopping it against FI.

So could I do it with a 38x stroker alone, or would I have to jump to a 4xx setup? I was under the impression that 38x was the max a stroker could/should go without adding bore...

Thanks everyone for everything so far. You've all been quite helpful.

 

bump ttt

 

That is a good starting point at least.

The sticky in the drag racing forum is weight reduction. Do everything there especially under wallet mods.

Things can be removed and replaced with a .1 oz AAA card too!

If you asked: "Cheapest way to 10's with an M6 and stock race weight" about 100 people would have said H/C/nitrous.

Most of the forced induction guys aren't in the 10's.

Good luck to you either way you go.

As an aside, why are you so opposed to nitrous?

 

3660 raceweight?

Well with no weight reduction, it's possible to get a 10.99 or at least have the power to get there, BradWS6 had a 30th A4 with a 383ci with ported LS6 heads and a very big cam and he went 11.14 with it. It was like a 238/240/111.

I had an iron block 422ci A4, and I went 11.02@123mph with problems at 3600 raceweight I think that it would have went 10.8 if I had not overrevved it to some extent and run bigger headers. I also ran too much tire (28's) oh well.

If you can tolerate a very big cam you can get there with a conventional stroker.

 

PSJ, how big of a difference do you think the M6 would make in his ET?

 

The M6 also hurts you vs a A4 with 4200+stall.
You are talking about weighing in at 3800lbs after roll cage which you need for the track to allow you to run. You will need a ton of money to get there on DRadials.
I say take 1200 dollars and buy yourself a nice set of skinny's, and slicks. You will save about 70 lbs and hook WAY better. Racing seats will help and will save another 50-100 lbs depending on if you have power seats. Removing the rear seats that noone sits in anyways will save 15-20 lbs. I haven't had my front sway bar on for 3 years and dont even realize it. Get the weight down and with the right H/C combo/suspension/gears/driver etc etc you should get there.

 

Eh? Sorry, this one went over my head...

Sure, but as I've said I am not interested in nitrous.

Well, a couple of reasons. First, my goal with this car is to be able to run its numbers in the same form that it drives around on the street in. Second, I don't fancy the idea of having a bottle that will "run out." My ideal is a car that can run 10's all day. Third, I simply don't want to risk my engine that way; I've heard too many stories about people who blew up their engines with N20.

I suppose I could add nitrous, but only after I have already achieved the goal of 10's. And I would prefer FI to nitrous in any case.

Really I don't want to discuss it. I'm only answering you because you were polite enough to provide me with information. Which I thank you for.

 

That's encouraging. Plus, that's not too big a cam considering it's a 383.

Well, wouldn't the added torque from the fact that it's a stroker serve to offset anything that I would lose down low, anyway? Thanks for the tip, John.

I mean, it's not like I won't have ANY weight reduction. It just has to fall within the criteria I mentioned above.

 

Yes, that is a key element. If I had an A4, it could clearly be done with the stroker.

The trouble is that I was under the impression that handling went out the window with skinnys/slicks... If so, then that's a no-no. Could I just do the rear tires? Is there a street legal slick?


Yes, that is perfectly okay so I will plan on that. I have a power driver's seat right now. Would I save ~50 or ~100 lbs?

Still debating this one.

3 years? Seriously, what exactly does the front sway bar do? Don't you need it to... prevent sway... in the front?

But I'll notice you didn't say a stroker was necessary. Is that your position?