black-knight, just in my opinion, removeing the front bumper, sway bar, and getting skinnys up front are not as unstreetable as removing the AC. i did notice that you where considering removeing that AC and i would advise against it before the sway, bumper and rims. thats just my opinion. i tell you what. one weekend, remove the sway bar, front bumper and borrow somebodys skinnys. drive it for a couple of days and see if you can handle it. if not, no problem, just put them back on. it wont hurt anything. also in my opinion a 10 second nitrous car is way more streetable then a 10 second NA car. big difference there in streetability. oh yea, and instead of going around in circles, to answer your true queston. "can 10s be had with a 3660lb car, M6, 346, completely streetable, and NA". simple. the answer is "no"

 

First, when you say remove the front bumper, you mean the part underneath, right? Would that be visible: i.e. would it look like I had ripped a big piece off my car? What about crashability? Am I risking my safety?

Next, the sway bar: It's there for a reason, right? What is that reason? What does the sway bar do, and what will happen if I remove it?

Third, are skinnys street legal? Do they affect handling? (I was almost sure that they did...)

I mean the AC doesn't affect how the car handles or looks... It only affects whether one can get cold air.

And in my opinion, a 10 second nitrous car isn't really a 10 second car: It's an 11 second car with nitrous.

Well, I never said it had to be completely streetable. But I had figured as much by this point. I have moved on to asking: can a 38x car with the above attributes do it, and how streetable would THAT be?

 

Going from a 346 to a 382 isn't going to give you that much power or torque. For the 5 thousand dollar it takes for a complete shortblock you could do a nice heads cam package and a 8-9psi supercharger. That would get you in the 10's if everything else was setup correctly. In your case I see it very hard to achieve what your after. Pro Stock John gave you a example but that car was a A4 and probally had a good converter. If you remove both front seats and add racing seats you will save about 60-70 lbs. Remove your spare tire and jack is another 35lbs.
How do you know what your car weighs? Put it on a scale, you cant just go by what the door says. Also just because you use skinny's at the track dosen't mean you have to drive around on them. Just change them for the track, and drive around on regular tires for the road. The sway bar mainly helps you in corning for turns. Really I bought my car used and the sway bar was already gone. Never even realized it until 3 months later when I tried removing it for the track. I then took it off my other car as well.
A nice fiberglass hood should shave 30 lbs. Chromoly A-arms is 14 lbs
Chromoly K-member is 31 lbs. Buy a dry cell battery and save 20 lbs and mount it in the back for a better 50/50 weight.

 

Heh. One question at a time.

As I said, I want the car to be able to run 10's IN STREET TRIM. I could change out the tires and take out the jack at the track, but that wouldn't accomplish my goal at all.

Well, that sounds like something I need for the street, but I could always try it. Like you said, if I don't like it no big deal.

Good point. I do not have access to a scale right now, unfortunately

I hear that to put the battery in the rear adds weight for wiring so it's a wash. What about a dry cell in the front? Is there a disadvantage for that over a conventional battery?

30 lbs hood
60 lbs seats
14 lbs chromoly a-arms
31 lbs k-member (will have to see if it fits w/headers)

That's 135 lbs. And not a single "sacrifice." I like this. Would a carbon fiber hood be even lighter? I hear they're making a ws6-style carbon fiber hood soon...

 

Leave the spare out and tires out the whole time. You very rarely need these items. If you go on a long trip put them back it.
There is another 30 lbs.

 

I have similar goals.

To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.

Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.

I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.

This leaves the $20k 427 stroker. Tons of torque and good driveability.

With no weight removed other than the spare tire, jack and factory disc changer my car weighs 3600 with me in it.

I figure 130 MPH 1/4 trap speeds should be enough

plug the figures into here to see how much crank HP you need

http://www.corral.net/tech/horsepower.html

At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.

I realistically figure in the $25K area for engine and suspension and drivetrain mods.

Sure it can be done for less but this car will look and sound and drive very close to stock.

 

on the front bumper i do mean just the inside of it. from the outside you cant even tell it is gone. as far as crashability, yes it is more dangerest, but so is raceing a 10 second car. the sway bar is there for cornering but all dragstrips are straight anyways. and skinnys are totally legal, at least in most if not all states. on the nitrous thing, all i can say, is that the first one to the finish line is the winner regardless how they got there. thats what matter to me.

 

That's just because most FI guys aren't running them in stripped drag cars.

They mostly run NO2.

I don't think a 550 RWHP 427 is "stealth" or "a sleeper". Probably not emissions compliant in its 550 RWHP trim either.

Good place to start:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/17319-weight-reduction-list.html

That is the weight reduction thread. To get a H/C M6 into the 10's you'll need a lot of that.

Its up to you what you can live with and what you can't.

Myself, A/C is necessary but a stereo is optional.

All about the sacrifices you are willing to make.

 

M6 is harder to run into the 10's.

Nine Ball had a 38_ big bore and he went 11.1's I think.

 

I don't think a 550 RWHP 427 is "stealth" or "a sleeper". Probably not emissions compliant in its 550 RWHP trim either.

Good place to start:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17319

That is the weight reduction thread. To get a H/C M6 into the 10's you'll need a lot of that.

Its up to you what you can live with and what you can't.

Myself, A/C is necessary but a stereo is optional.

All about the sacrifices you are willing to make

-----------------------------------------------

Having converters in place and a full exhaust will get me by for emissions My car is a 2002 so I have no EGR or AIR. At least visually my car will pass.

As far as stealth no one needs to know about the extra 80 cubes right?

As far as weight reductions I think I can drop about 100 lbs with a bit of work but I think for a weekend toy I'm not too concerned about getting every .10th. Breaking into high 10's would make me quite happy

 

Dude if you want to go 10's do it the cheap man way. All motor to mid-low 11's and spray to 10's. I'm looking to break into the mid-high 11's with H/C, full exhaust with true duals, an air lid, 12-bolt rear end with 4.10's, Stage 2 clutch, and maybe some pullies. I myself and still wondering If I can reach that goal with full weight and still keep it a car that I can take on the street for a Nice Saturday night cruise without any problems.

 

didn't he end up getting that car in the 10s with 3800lbs and M6 or so with a 427CI or something. and i think that was with the best MTI heads money can buy. this shows how hard it really is at that wieght.

 

CamaroJoe, I think your goals are even more stringent than mine. From what everyone has said here, you will need at LEAST 427 cubes to get there. I can see the appeal, but for that kind of money you might want to consider shopping it against a custom turbo setup.

Good luck to you.

 

That's fine, but I don't want the car to be streetable as an 11 second car, that I can remove the sway bar and slap skinnys on and run 10's. I want it to be a 10 second car in street trim.

Hey, If I lost to N20 I would still consider it a loss. But I would just ask the guy to race best 11 out of 20 and then see how well he did.

 

Yah he went a 10.7 I think at stock weight (+ lite rims, but + 5 pt cage)...

 

To be solid in the 10's at that weight (550rwhp) is needed. You do the math.

 

"Hey, If I lost to N20 I would still consider it a loss. But I would just ask the guy to race best 11 out of 20 and then see how well he did."

I have 14 boddles at my use, 6 of which are 15 pounders. I will run you the best 51 of 100 if you want. Of course I will put at least 500 dollars on it so I can refill my boddles.

 

Okay, okay. Point taken. We all know the advantages and disadvantages of N20. I don't want this to turn into a nitrous debate. The point is that I'm not interested. If that's to my detriment, then so be it.

So PSJ and others, am I hearing that even with a 38X setup, it would still be somewhat tricky to get into the 10's? Even with the new lsx and stage 3 heads that everyone is coming out with? I can do enough weight reduction to at least compensate for the cage, if not more. Isn't 550 rwhp a pretty doable number with that many cubes?

 

You are way off course. To get that much power even out of a 427 the cam is going to have to be aggressive, the headers will need to be 1 7/8, and the exhaust note will be loud. Let me help you get there a different way.
You said that FI isn't for you b/c most of the people with FI setup aren't running the numbers the dyno says. DUDE you are trying to get a full weight
sleeper in the 10's. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry to be a dick, but it's funny.
Anyways back on track here. The HP calc you are using is neat but much more goes into running 10's then 130MPH. Here is a great option that would defentially get you the HP you will need, still be more of a sleeper (until you open the hood) then a 427 and you will have the power full time.
Buy a forged 347, 382, 387 or something along these lines. Get the motor built with around 8.5:1 compression. Get a set of very good heads. Buy a Turbo or Supercharger kit that can make at least 15psi. You should beable to make 600+ RWHP with this etup even running a Z06 cam and full exhaust.
You will trap well over 130 MPH. As long as you can hook at least a 1.7 60ft and you drive the car well you should make 10 sec passes all day.
If you have a A4 then you will also need a 3500-3800 stall for the setup and if you have a M6 I would suggest a 373 gear with 26" tall tire or 410 gear with a 28" tall tire. That way you will get through the 1/4 in 4th.

 

Sorry about the Nitrous reply. Just being a smart ***. If my cars were as fast as my mouth I would have a few 7 sec LS1's.
Anyway.
The tricky part comes down to great 60ft and driving skill.
550 RWHP should be good enough if everything is done properly. Also if you do all the weight mods it will defentially help. Take that spare tire out like I said and put it back in if you take a road trip in your track car. Chances are probally unlikely. The new intake/TB and heads should defentially give you a 20+ HP gain from what most other setup's have. I think 520RWHP is a better guess because you will be going through a 8.8/12bolt/9" and a 373 or 410 gear. This will defentially take some power, but is a must if you drag race.
I am also saying 520 tops, and it might take a 422 or 427 to get there.