As long as we're asking, what does it take for 10's with...
10 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,884
Likes: 4
From: H-town
black-knight, just in my opinion, removeing the front bumper, sway bar, and getting skinnys up front are not as unstreetable as removing the AC. i did notice that you where considering removeing that AC and i would advise against it before the sway, bumper and rims. thats just my opinion. i tell you what. one weekend, remove the sway bar, front bumper and borrow somebodys skinnys. drive it for a couple of days and see if you can handle it. if not, no problem, just put them back on. it wont hurt anything. also in my opinion a 10 second nitrous car is way more streetable then a 10 second NA car. big difference there in streetability. oh yea, and instead of going around in circles, to answer your true queston. "can 10s be had with a 3660lb car, M6, 346, completely streetable, and NA". simple. the answer is "no"
Originally Posted by taqwache
i tell you what. one weekend, remove the sway bar, front bumper and borrow somebodys skinnys."
Next, the sway bar: It's there for a reason, right? What is that reason? What does the sway bar do, and what will happen if I remove it?
Third, are skinnys street legal? Do they affect handling? (I was almost sure that they did...)
I mean the AC doesn't affect how the car handles or looks... It only affects whether one can get cold air.
Originally Posted by taqwache
also in my opinion a 10 second nitrous car is way more streetable then a 10 second NA car.
Originally Posted by taqwache
to answer your true queston. "can 10s be had with a 3660lb car, M6, 346, completely streetable, and NA". simple. the answer is "no"
Going from a 346 to a 382 isn't going to give you that much power or torque. For the 5 thousand dollar it takes for a complete shortblock you could do a nice heads cam package and a 8-9psi supercharger. That would get you in the 10's if everything else was setup correctly. In your case I see it very hard to achieve what your after. Pro Stock John gave you a example but that car was a A4 and probally had a good converter. If you remove both front seats and add racing seats you will save about 60-70 lbs. Remove your spare tire and jack is another 35lbs.
How do you know what your car weighs? Put it on a scale, you cant just go by what the door says. Also just because you use skinny's at the track dosen't mean you have to drive around on them. Just change them for the track, and drive around on regular tires for the road. The sway bar mainly helps you in corning for turns. Really I bought my car used and the sway bar was already gone. Never even realized it until 3 months later when I tried removing it for the track. I then took it off my other car as well.
A nice fiberglass hood should shave 30 lbs. Chromoly A-arms is 14 lbs
Chromoly K-member is 31 lbs. Buy a dry cell battery and save 20 lbs and mount it in the back for a better 50/50 weight.
How do you know what your car weighs? Put it on a scale, you cant just go by what the door says. Also just because you use skinny's at the track dosen't mean you have to drive around on them. Just change them for the track, and drive around on regular tires for the road. The sway bar mainly helps you in corning for turns. Really I bought my car used and the sway bar was already gone. Never even realized it until 3 months later when I tried removing it for the track. I then took it off my other car as well.
A nice fiberglass hood should shave 30 lbs. Chromoly A-arms is 14 lbs
Chromoly K-member is 31 lbs. Buy a dry cell battery and save 20 lbs and mount it in the back for a better 50/50 weight.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Going from a 346 to a 382 isn't going to give you that much power or torque. For the 5 thousand dollar it takes for a complete shortblock you could do a nice heads cam package and a 8-9psi supercharger.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Remove your spare tire and jack is another 35lbs.
Also just because you use skinny's at the track dosen't mean you have to drive around on them. Just change them for the track, and drive around on regular tires for the road.
Also just because you use skinny's at the track dosen't mean you have to drive around on them. Just change them for the track, and drive around on regular tires for the road.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
The sway bar mainly helps you in corning for turns.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
How do you know what your car weighs? Put it on a scale, you cant just go by what the door says.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
A nice fiberglass hood should shave 30 lbs. Chromoly A-arms is 14 lbs
Chromoly K-member is 31 lbs. Buy a dry cell battery and save 20 lbs and mount it in the back for a better 50/50 weight.
Chromoly K-member is 31 lbs. Buy a dry cell battery and save 20 lbs and mount it in the back for a better 50/50 weight.
30 lbs hood
60 lbs seats
14 lbs chromoly a-arms
31 lbs k-member (will have to see if it fits w/headers)
That's 135 lbs. And not a single "sacrifice." I like this. Would a carbon fiber hood be even lighter? I hear they're making a ws6-style carbon fiber hood soon...
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
From: Ontario Canada
I have similar goals.
To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.
This leaves the $20k 427 stroker. Tons of torque and good driveability.
With no weight removed other than the spare tire, jack and factory disc changer my car weighs 3600 with me in it.
I figure 130 MPH 1/4 trap speeds should be enough
plug the figures into here to see how much crank HP you need
http://www.corral.net/tech/horsepower.html
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
I realistically figure in the $25K area for engine and suspension and drivetrain mods.
Sure it can be done for less but this car will look and sound and drive very close to stock.
To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.
This leaves the $20k 427 stroker. Tons of torque and good driveability.
With no weight removed other than the spare tire, jack and factory disc changer my car weighs 3600 with me in it.
I figure 130 MPH 1/4 trap speeds should be enough
plug the figures into here to see how much crank HP you need
http://www.corral.net/tech/horsepower.html
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
I realistically figure in the $25K area for engine and suspension and drivetrain mods.
Sure it can be done for less but this car will look and sound and drive very close to stock.
10 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,884
Likes: 4
From: H-town
Originally Posted by black_knight
First, when you say remove the front bumper, you mean the part underneath, right? Would that be visible: i.e. would it look like I had ripped a big piece off my car? What about crashability? Am I risking my safety?
Next, the sway bar: It's there for a reason, right? What is that reason? What does the sway bar do, and what will happen if I remove it?
Third, are skinnys street legal? Do they affect handling? (I was almost sure that they did...)
I mean the AC doesn't affect how the car handles or looks... It only affects whether one can get cold air.
And in my opinion, a 10 second nitrous car isn't really a 10 second car: It's an 11 second car with nitrous.
Well, I never said it had to be completely streetable. But I had figured as much by this point. I have moved on to asking: can a 38x car with the above attributes do it, and how streetable would THAT be?
Next, the sway bar: It's there for a reason, right? What is that reason? What does the sway bar do, and what will happen if I remove it?
Third, are skinnys street legal? Do they affect handling? (I was almost sure that they did...)
I mean the AC doesn't affect how the car handles or looks... It only affects whether one can get cold air.
And in my opinion, a 10 second nitrous car isn't really a 10 second car: It's an 11 second car with nitrous.
Well, I never said it had to be completely streetable. But I had figured as much by this point. I have moved on to asking: can a 38x car with the above attributes do it, and how streetable would THAT be?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 0
I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.
They mostly run NO2.
To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
Good place to start:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/17319-weight-reduction-list.html
That is the weight reduction thread. To get a H/C M6 into the 10's you'll need a lot of that.
Its up to you what you can live with and what you can't.
Myself, A/C is necessary but a stereo is optional.
All about the sacrifices you are willing to make.
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Launching!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
From: Ontario Canada
I don't think a 550 RWHP 427 is "stealth" or "a sleeper". Probably not emissions compliant in its 550 RWHP trim either.
Good place to start:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17319
That is the weight reduction thread. To get a H/C M6 into the 10's you'll need a lot of that.
Its up to you what you can live with and what you can't.
Myself, A/C is necessary but a stereo is optional.
All about the sacrifices you are willing to make
-----------------------------------------------
Having converters in place and a full exhaust will get me by for emissions
My car is a 2002 so I have no EGR or AIR. At least visually my car will pass.
As far as stealth no one needs to know about the extra 80 cubes right?
As far as weight reductions I think I can drop about 100 lbs with a bit of work but I think for a weekend toy I'm not too concerned about getting every .10th. Breaking into high 10's would make me quite happy
Good place to start:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17319
That is the weight reduction thread. To get a H/C M6 into the 10's you'll need a lot of that.
Its up to you what you can live with and what you can't.
Myself, A/C is necessary but a stereo is optional.
All about the sacrifices you are willing to make
-----------------------------------------------
Having converters in place and a full exhaust will get me by for emissions
My car is a 2002 so I have no EGR or AIR. At least visually my car will pass.As far as stealth no one needs to know about the extra 80 cubes right?
As far as weight reductions I think I can drop about 100 lbs with a bit of work but I think for a weekend toy I'm not too concerned about getting every .10th. Breaking into high 10's would make me quite happy
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Dude if you want to go 10's do it the cheap man way. All motor to mid-low 11's and spray to 10's. I'm looking to break into the mid-high 11's with H/C, full exhaust with true duals, an air lid, 12-bolt rear end with 4.10's, Stage 2 clutch, and maybe some pullies. I myself and still wondering If I can reach that goal with full weight and still keep it a car that I can take on the street for a Nice Saturday night cruise without any problems.
10 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,884
Likes: 4
From: H-town
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
M6 is harder to run into the 10's.
Nine Ball had a 38_ big bore and he went 11.1's I think.
Nine Ball had a 38_ big bore and he went 11.1's I think.
Originally Posted by CamaroJoe
I have similar goals.
Good luck to you.
Originally Posted by taqwache
the sway bar is there for cornering but all dragstrips are straight anyways. and skinnys are totally legal, at least in most if not all states.
Originally Posted by taqwache
on the nitrous thing, all i can say, is that the first one to the finish line is the winner regardless how they got there. thats what matter to me.
"Hey, If I lost to N20 I would still consider it a loss. But I would just ask the guy to race best 11 out of 20 and then see how well he did."
I have 14 boddles at my use, 6 of which are 15 pounders. I will run you the best 51 of 100 if you want. Of course I will put at least 500 dollars on it so I can refill my boddles.
I have 14 boddles at my use, 6 of which are 15 pounders. I will run you the best 51 of 100 if you want. Of course I will put at least 500 dollars on it so I can refill my boddles.
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
"Hey, If I lost to N20 I would still consider it a loss. But I would just ask the guy to race best 11 out of 20 and then see how well he did."
I have 14 boddles at my use, 6 of which are 15 pounders. I will run you the best 51 of 100 if you want. Of course I will put at least 500 dollars on it so I can refill my boddles.
I have 14 boddles at my use, 6 of which are 15 pounders. I will run you the best 51 of 100 if you want. Of course I will put at least 500 dollars on it so I can refill my boddles.
So PSJ and others, am I hearing that even with a 38X setup, it would still be somewhat tricky to get into the 10's? Even with the new lsx and stage 3 heads that everyone is coming out with? I can do enough weight reduction to at least compensate for the cage, if not more. Isn't 550 rwhp a pretty doable number with that many cubes?
Originally Posted by CamaroJoe
I have similar goals.
To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.
This leaves the $20k 427 stroker. Tons of torque and good driveability.
With no weight removed other than the spare tire, jack and factory disc changer my car weighs 3600 with me in it.
I figure 130 MPH 1/4 trap speeds should be enough
plug the figures into here to see how much crank HP you need
http://www.corral.net/tech/horsepower.html
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
I realistically figure in the $25K area for engine and suspension and drivetrain mods.
Sure it can be done for less but this car will look and sound and drive very close to stock.
To run in the 10's with my car in street trim and to be very driveable. I dont want to give up my AC or anything else. No overly rough idle or extremely loud exhaust and full emissions.
Basically I want it to be stealth a total sleeper capable of blowing the doors off most anything out there. I know I'll never be the fastest but I will beat most ricers and anything stock that anyone builds.
I've considered FI and NO2 but am not interested in either. NO2 is not practical for everyday use and FI seldom delivers at the track what the dyno shows.
This leaves the $20k 427 stroker. Tons of torque and good driveability.
With no weight removed other than the spare tire, jack and factory disc changer my car weighs 3600 with me in it.
I figure 130 MPH 1/4 trap speeds should be enough
plug the figures into here to see how much crank HP you need
http://www.corral.net/tech/horsepower.html
At 3600 lbs I will need 630 crank HP to run 130 mph so a 550 RWHP 427 should be able to do it.
I realistically figure in the $25K area for engine and suspension and drivetrain mods.
Sure it can be done for less but this car will look and sound and drive very close to stock.
You are way off course. To get that much power even out of a 427 the cam is going to have to be aggressive, the headers will need to be 1 7/8, and the exhaust note will be loud. Let me help you get there a different way.
You said that FI isn't for you b/c most of the people with FI setup aren't running the numbers the dyno says. DUDE you are trying to get a full weight
sleeper in the 10's. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry to be a dick, but it's funny.
Anyways back on track here. The HP calc you are using is neat but much more goes into running 10's then 130MPH. Here is a great option that would defentially get you the HP you will need, still be more of a sleeper (until you open the hood) then a 427 and you will have the power full time.
Buy a forged 347, 382, 387 or something along these lines. Get the motor built with around 8.5:1 compression. Get a set of very good heads. Buy a Turbo or Supercharger kit that can make at least 15psi. You should beable to make 600+ RWHP with this etup even running a Z06 cam and full exhaust.
You will trap well over 130 MPH. As long as you can hook at least a 1.7 60ft and you drive the car well you should make 10 sec passes all day.
If you have a A4 then you will also need a 3500-3800 stall for the setup and if you have a M6 I would suggest a 373 gear with 26" tall tire or 410 gear with a 28" tall tire. That way you will get through the 1/4 in 4th.
Originally Posted by black_knight
Okay, okay. Point taken. We all know the advantages and disadvantages of N20. I don't want this to turn into a nitrous debate. The point is that I'm not interested. If that's to my detriment, then so be it.
So PSJ and others, am I hearing that even with a 38X setup, it would still be somewhat tricky to get into the 10's? Even with the new lsx and stage 3 heads that everyone is coming out with? I can do enough weight reduction to at least compensate for the cage, if not more. Isn't 550 rwhp a pretty doable number with that many cubes?
So PSJ and others, am I hearing that even with a 38X setup, it would still be somewhat tricky to get into the 10's? Even with the new lsx and stage 3 heads that everyone is coming out with? I can do enough weight reduction to at least compensate for the cage, if not more. Isn't 550 rwhp a pretty doable number with that many cubes?
Sorry about the Nitrous reply. Just being a smart ***. If my cars were as fast as my mouth I would have a few 7 sec LS1's.
Anyway.
The tricky part comes down to great 60ft and driving skill.
550 RWHP should be good enough if everything is done properly. Also if you do all the weight mods it will defentially help. Take that spare tire out like I said and put it back in if you take a road trip in your track car. Chances are probally unlikely. The new intake/TB and heads should defentially give you a 20+ HP gain from what most other setup's have. I think 520RWHP is a better guess because you will be going through a 8.8/12bolt/9" and a 373 or 410 gear. This will defentially take some power, but is a must if you drag race.
I am also saying 520 tops, and it might take a 422 or 427 to get there.