Lifters
12-28-2013, 01:34 PM
#1
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Lifters I was just wondering what Lifters some of you went with. I was told to go ls7 Lifter but some say they fail with bigger cams. The cam I'm going with is a tsp 233/239 598/603 cam. So I guess my question is will they hold.
12-28-2013, 01:43 PM
#2
That really isn't that big. LS7 lifters are stock replacement, which is NOT bad but is no upgrade either.
The biggest problem with the LS7 lifters is the internet myth they are an upgrade and the people dumb enough to believe that are dumb enough to do all kinds of other things wrong.
Personally I would reuse stock or look for an upgrade.
The biggest problem with the LS7 lifters is the internet myth they are an upgrade and the people dumb enough to believe that are dumb enough to do all kinds of other things wrong.
Personally I would reuse stock or look for an upgrade.
12-28-2013, 08:13 PM
#7
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12-29-2013, 08:48 PM
#10
putting them in a car with a different valvetrain than an LS1 will kill them pretty quickly
they arent repacements for an LS1/ls2/ls3/ls6 lifter
they are shorter total travel than the other LS lifters..so people end up bottoming them out and they dont even know it...ruins a lot of stuff real fast
they only have about .130 total travel vs .160 of the LS lifter, so knowing your preload becomes extremely important as there is less room for error
and you need to also know that from zero lash, 1 full turn of the 1.7 rocker bolt = .078 preload..
go with either a Comp Cams Standard lifter(direct replacement for stock lifter, just slightly better), the Comp -R lifter(racing lifter...better yet)
or get a set of Morel Lifters...(best of all of them)
you can go all out and buy a set of Morel Link Bar lifters (Like I did)....and then you can remove the Lifter Trays from the equation...
12-29-2013, 09:44 PM
#11
ls7 lifters fail for all sorts of reasons...
putting them in a car with a different valvetrain than an LS1 will kill them pretty quickly
they arent repacements for an LS1/ls2/ls3/ls6 lifter
they are shorter total travel than the other LS lifters..so people end up bottoming them out and they dont even know it...ruins a lot of stuff real fast
they only have about .130 total travel vs .160 of the LS lifter, so knowing your preload becomes extremely important as there is less room for error
and you need to also know that from zero lash, 1 full turn of the 1.7 rocker bolt = .078 preload..
go with either a Comp Cams Standard lifter(direct replacement for stock lifter, just slightly better), the Comp -R lifter(racing lifter...better yet)
or get a set of Morel Lifters...(best of all of them)
you can go all out and buy a set of Morel Link Bar lifters (Like I did)....and then you can remove the Lifter Trays from the equation...
In all of the years that I've been around LS1tech, I've never seen a lifter spin in a tray. Anyone who has had a lifter spin must of had a valve train that was completely out of control.
12-29-2013, 09:54 PM
#13
you are wrong...
I have measured, and I can show the math as well...
you have to account for the 1.7 rocker...
Rockers are 1.25mm.
That means every turn of the bolt results in 1.25mm travel of the bolt or 1.25/25.4=.0492". (BOLT TRAVEL ONLY....NOT ROCKER TRAVEL)
Since the valve end of the rocker arm is essentially constrained from moving while turning the rocker arm bolt down from zero lash, it becomes the pivot point of the rocker and the movement at the pushrod end of the rocker arm gets multiplied by the ratio of the distance from the valve to the pushrod divided by the distance from the valve to the rocker arm bolt.
Since it's just a ratio, the units and actual dimensions aren't really needed since we already know the ratio with the rocker arm bolt as the pivot point.
We know the rocker arm ratio is 1.7:1 which means the distance from the pushrod to the rocker arm bolt is "1x" and the distance from the rocker arm bolt to the valve is "1.7x"...again, the units and actual dimensions aren't needed...its still Just a 1.7:1 ratio from one side to the other.
That means the total rocker arm length from the valve to the pushrod is "2.7x" so we have all the numbers we need...2.7/1.7=1.588. With a 1.25mm pitch, the lifter preload for each turn of the bolt will be .0492*1.588=.078"
I have measured with a dial indicator on every LS Car I have ever worked on to make sure I have the right pushrod length and right lifter preload.....it is indeed 0.78 per one full turn of the rocker bolt...give or take about .03 for bolt stretch when you get to the bottom and start to go to 22ft lbs
12-29-2013, 09:58 PM
#14
Morels are nice pieces, However the link bar lifters are heavier than the standard lifters.
In all of the years that I've been around LS1tech, I've never seen a lifter spin in a tray. Anyone who has had a lifter spin must of had a valve train that was completely out of control.
In all of the years that I've been around LS1tech, I've never seen a lifter spin in a tray. Anyone who has had a lifter spin must of had a valve train that was completely out of control.
you go to them to gain extra stability and to get rid of the lifter trays for better oil drainback
12-29-2013, 10:15 PM
#16
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you need to measure.....
you are wrong...
I have measured, and I can show the math as well...
you have to account for the 1.7 rocker...
Rockers are 1.25mm.
That means every turn of the bolt results in 1.25mm travel of the bolt or 1.25/25.4=.0492". (BOLT TRAVEL ONLY....NOT ROCKER TRAVEL)
Since the valve end of the rocker arm is essentially constrained from moving while turning the rocker arm bolt down from zero lash, it becomes the pivot point of the rocker and the movement at the pushrod end of the rocker arm gets multiplied by the ratio of the distance from the valve to the pushrod divided by the distance from the valve to the rocker arm bolt.
Since it's just a ratio, the units and actual dimensions aren't really needed since we already know the ratio with the rocker arm bolt as the pivot point.
We know the rocker arm ratio is 1.7:1 which means the distance from the pushrod to the rocker arm bolt is "1x" and the distance from the rocker arm bolt to the valve is "1.7x"...again, the units and actual dimensions aren't needed...its still Just a 1.7:1 ratio from one side to the other.
That means the total rocker arm length from the valve to the pushrod is "2.7x" so we have all the numbers we need...2.7/1.7=1.588. With a 1.25mm pitch, the lifter preload for each turn of the bolt will be .0492*1.588=.078"
I have measured with a dial indicator on every LS Car I have ever worked on to make sure I have the right pushrod length and right lifter preload.....it is indeed 0.78 per one full turn of the rocker bolt...give or take about .03 for bolt stretch when you get to the bottom and start to go to 22ft lbs
you are wrong...
I have measured, and I can show the math as well...
you have to account for the 1.7 rocker...
Rockers are 1.25mm.
That means every turn of the bolt results in 1.25mm travel of the bolt or 1.25/25.4=.0492". (BOLT TRAVEL ONLY....NOT ROCKER TRAVEL)
Since the valve end of the rocker arm is essentially constrained from moving while turning the rocker arm bolt down from zero lash, it becomes the pivot point of the rocker and the movement at the pushrod end of the rocker arm gets multiplied by the ratio of the distance from the valve to the pushrod divided by the distance from the valve to the rocker arm bolt.
Since it's just a ratio, the units and actual dimensions aren't really needed since we already know the ratio with the rocker arm bolt as the pivot point.
We know the rocker arm ratio is 1.7:1 which means the distance from the pushrod to the rocker arm bolt is "1x" and the distance from the rocker arm bolt to the valve is "1.7x"...again, the units and actual dimensions aren't needed...its still Just a 1.7:1 ratio from one side to the other.
That means the total rocker arm length from the valve to the pushrod is "2.7x" so we have all the numbers we need...2.7/1.7=1.588. With a 1.25mm pitch, the lifter preload for each turn of the bolt will be .0492*1.588=.078"
I have measured with a dial indicator on every LS Car I have ever worked on to make sure I have the right pushrod length and right lifter preload.....it is indeed 0.78 per one full turn of the rocker bolt...give or take about .03 for bolt stretch when you get to the bottom and start to go to 22ft lbs
12-30-2013, 12:35 AM
#20
You're math fails to account for one very important aspect. And I know you state .078" every time you get the chance. But I measured my preload with a dial indicator and sliding caliper on the adjustable pushrod.
Anyway the important aspect is the rocker arm does not move the final 1/3 of the turn. Once it fully seats it stops moving. Check it.
.047" is the avg distance the plunger moves at 1 full turn. Once seated, you don't add preload. You add bolt stretch. Redo your math without it moving .049" at the bolt. You'll be very close to .047" using the fulcrum with the bolt moving closer to .032" total.
Some will say it doesn't move at all once at 0 lash... But you can clearly see the dial indicator move as torque is applied. But it stops moving about the final 1/3 no matter the number of turns.
Anyway the important aspect is the rocker arm does not move the final 1/3 of the turn. Once it fully seats it stops moving. Check it.
.047" is the avg distance the plunger moves at 1 full turn. Once seated, you don't add preload. You add bolt stretch. Redo your math without it moving .049" at the bolt. You'll be very close to .047" using the fulcrum with the bolt moving closer to .032" total.
Some will say it doesn't move at all once at 0 lash... But you can clearly see the dial indicator move as torque is applied. But it stops moving about the final 1/3 no matter the number of turns.