Brian Tooley valve springs tested after DD for a year(2015 UPDATE ON P. 3 POST 42)
02-21-2014, 07:30 AM
#41
Obviously the lighter titanium retainers will allow more RPM without valve float.
The steel retainers are less likely to suffer from any type of chafing like titanium can.
Titanium is not as strong as heat treated 4140, it's simply lighter.
Our steel retainers with stock locks are as light as the old Patriot titanium retainers with their super 7 locks, so our steel retainers are really light.
When I designed both retainers, I made the cross section of the titanium retainers around 33% thicker than the steel retainers to compensate for the difference in strength between the materials. Interestingly in stress testing the steel and titanium retainers failed at almost the exact same pressure. Actually the retainers never failed, the locks would fail and pull through the center, which we've never seen in actual use.
Old Patriot titanium retainer with super 7 locks 16.0 grams
BTR steel retainer with stock locks 16.2 grams.
01-13-2015, 08:11 PM
#42
Update after another year:
Pulled same two valve springs as last year. I did shim them the .045 as planned in post 1 in 2014. With a measured install height of 1.800 and adding .045 worth of shim the install height is 1.755. This is where the machinist measured for closed pressure and he measured for open pressure at 1.155 (.600 lift, TV2 cam)
Results:
closed pressure (1.755 installed height) 160 lbs
open pressure (1.155 open height) 400 lbs
This again was daily driving, racing, and nitrous. Guess I'm good to go for another year.
Pulled same two valve springs as last year. I did shim them the .045 as planned in post 1 in 2014. With a measured install height of 1.800 and adding .045 worth of shim the install height is 1.755. This is where the machinist measured for closed pressure and he measured for open pressure at 1.155 (.600 lift, TV2 cam)
Results:
closed pressure (1.755 installed height) 160 lbs
open pressure (1.155 open height) 400 lbs
This again was daily driving, racing, and nitrous. Guess I'm good to go for another year.
01-16-2015, 02:03 PM
#48
TECH Fanatic
Just curious you said you DD the car about 1000 miles a month, is that year round? Basicly what I'm asking is how many miles a year are you putting on these springs?
01-16-2015, 06:44 PM
#49
Year round. Easily a 1000 a month, maybe more. Actually, I just finished calculating miles driven to and from work only, and that total is 8,200. I can guarantee I put at least another 4000 miles a year just from running around in the car and racing. I drive it everywhere. So just to be on the safe side let's say 10,000 miles a year. So my springs have approximately 20,000 miles(probably more) on them currently. Let's also remember this is on XER lobes. I will also admit, I don't let the car fully warm up every time I leave in the car on a cold start. Maybe a couple minutes at most.
01-17-2015, 12:11 AM
#50
TECH Fanatic
Thats pretty awesome that you're likely going to get 30-40k out of those springs with a XER cam. Just think it you had LXL, EPS, or some other "soft lobed" cam, getting 50k out of one set of springs might not be out of the question.
01-18-2015, 09:09 PM
#52
Ran them shimmed to 1.750 with my EDC cam. LOVED the springs and not a single HINT of valve float when Geoff tuned it. Twice. A year apart.
It's pretty cool OP you're taking your springs off and testing them, and putting the results here. Very good knowledge and piece of mind for a lot of folks.
Hats off to you.
It's pretty cool OP you're taking your springs off and testing them, and putting the results here. Very good knowledge and piece of mind for a lot of folks.
Hats off to you.
01-18-2015, 10:21 PM
#53
I've only been checking the same two going on the assumption all are the same. I'm not pulling them all to be checked unless the heads have to come off again.
I started making this a habit when a I lost a motor due a dropped valve from worn valvev springs and running nitrous on a street bike at the track. Long story short: the valve dropped, broke the small end of a carrillo rod and cut the motor wide open and even knocked the oil filter off. Happened before the 1/8 mile mark but still tripped the beams at 140 mph at the 1/8 (bike was on a 7 second pass). Oiled the back tire down and I was running a slider clutch. Nearly wrecked. I got very lucky and destroyed a very well built nitrous motor due to lack of valve spring maintenance. Lesson learned.
I started making this a habit when a I lost a motor due a dropped valve from worn valvev springs and running nitrous on a street bike at the track. Long story short: the valve dropped, broke the small end of a carrillo rod and cut the motor wide open and even knocked the oil filter off. Happened before the 1/8 mile mark but still tripped the beams at 140 mph at the 1/8 (bike was on a 7 second pass). Oiled the back tire down and I was running a slider clutch. Nearly wrecked. I got very lucky and destroyed a very well built nitrous motor due to lack of valve spring maintenance. Lesson learned.
11-19-2015, 10:29 AM
#55
Just had mine checked after around 20k miles on an EPS 230/238 and then a Cam Motion 230/238. Lift on both cams was .605/.620" then flipped to .620/.602" and the machine shop said they are dead nuts on.
Another thumbs up for a great product at a great price and an excellent vendor to boot.
Another thumbs up for a great product at a great price and an excellent vendor to boot.
12-14-2015, 12:44 PM
#58
Just got back from the machine shop. And happily got to slap it back together once again. Checked front driver side valve springs again. With the same .045 shims still in the results were:
Intake: 165/400
Exhaust : 160/395
Someone asked in the past what the machine brand was the we're testing with. It is Rimac.
Intake: 165/400
Exhaust : 160/395
Someone asked in the past what the machine brand was the we're testing with. It is Rimac.
