Short duration, Tight LSA Cams
Originally Posted by nuzee
Highgear
That hi-lift 212/218 was THE cam choice for me for sometime. But then I stumbled across CompCams 206/212 112 lsa. Although it simulates a tad less horsepower up top than the 212/218, it shifts more power down low. Since you got a higher stall converter, that low end boost is not that critical. So, that cam sounds like a winner for your setup. Your comments are always appreciated! Aloha
Silversurfer
Thanks for the tip on Jersy-TA! Encouraging to hear about someone hitting 12.0s with stock TC. Doing headers first is solid advice, especially if I were to select a cam that makes its power at higher rpms. But I'm very curious to see the effects of the small cam with stock manifolds first. Maybe I can produce some useful information for guys not wanting to do headers. Plus, stainless steel headers are not in this year's budget, LOL.
Nitrous, too tempting to step it up. I want to get some of the Hawaii guys off the bottle and run NA against me. They'll probably still kick the crap out of me, but it should be closer.
Anyway, thanks for your advice!
That hi-lift 212/218 was THE cam choice for me for sometime. But then I stumbled across CompCams 206/212 112 lsa. Although it simulates a tad less horsepower up top than the 212/218, it shifts more power down low. Since you got a higher stall converter, that low end boost is not that critical. So, that cam sounds like a winner for your setup. Your comments are always appreciated! Aloha
Silversurfer
Thanks for the tip on Jersy-TA! Encouraging to hear about someone hitting 12.0s with stock TC. Doing headers first is solid advice, especially if I were to select a cam that makes its power at higher rpms. But I'm very curious to see the effects of the small cam with stock manifolds first. Maybe I can produce some useful information for guys not wanting to do headers. Plus, stainless steel headers are not in this year's budget, LOL.
Nitrous, too tempting to step it up. I want to get some of the Hawaii guys off the bottle and run NA against me. They'll probably still kick the crap out of me, but it should be closer.
Anyway, thanks for your advice!interesting cam discussion guys.
nuzee when you heading to the track.will run you n/a just for fun.think weve meet before right! 
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Fastone - Yeah, I have a bit... I'm still up in the air about them because every once in a while I hear about charging issues or cooling issues while sitting in traffic. Those are two things I'm nervous about because I've got these electric fans in there now - those are two problems the fans have been known to cause with in these trucks, so I don't want to push my luck! Thanks for the recommendation though.
On The Tree
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From: Lakewood, OH and Grand Marais, MI
Originally Posted by marc_w
Nuzee, Hows the cam working out for you?
I've got to pull a 5,000lb camper on vacation next Tuesday. I'm frustrated enough to overnight a 206/212 to me right now. Honestly, I'm considering going right back to stock if it's not here in time... how bad is that?
I've got to pull a 5,000lb camper on vacation next Tuesday. I'm frustrated enough to overnight a 206/212 to me right now. Honestly, I'm considering going right back to stock if it's not here in time... how bad is that?
In a situation like yours compromise is in order. You're not building a setup for the strip in a 3600 lb F-Body. Get the 206/212; in any case I would not go above 212 degrees intake duration in a towing application for any small block, and even that is pushing it. Stuff an 8.1 liter crate motor in there and the extra cubes will alllow you to go a bit bigger on the cam timing.
Among board sponsors I think Tom Byrne has a lot of experience working with truck applications. You may want to check in with him.
All the best - Jeff L.
Last edited by SSLink; Aug 19, 2004 at 08:34 AM.
A snap gauge, set of dial calipers, and the retainer you are using on the installation works fine. Be sure if the retainer has an inner step and you are running duals to check that distance also for coil bind.
Chris
Chris
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Thanks SSL...
That's EXACTLY what I'm after...
I've heard good things about the Yank 2600 for towing - supposedly it pulls much better than stock with the relatively low stall speed and increased STR. The 3K is where there is a comprimise...
JRP - That's actually what I'm going to do. I was going to try and rush over a 206/212, but I'll hold off. I'm unsure if I'll run the 220/220 next week, or go back to stock until more mods are installed next spring. I'm leaning towards going back to stock. I just figured while I had the motor open - why not try something similar to a beefed up stock cam?
Part of my off the shelf shopping (with this TR220) was to go with something popular to get a baseline as to what I exactly want.
I called Comp today, and they recommended the 212/218 as a good all around performance cam for my application. He said there would still be a loss of extreme lowend power until all the common bolt-ons are added. I asked what the person though about the 206, and he told me if I still have the stock cam around, to save my money and put it back in until the motor is built up.
I was a little frustrated because he automatically thought I was after 1/4 mile times. I had to state a few times all I care about is building torque on the stock powerband. He still thought the stocker was my best bet.
Marc: It's not bad at all. I think you're moving in the right direction. If you're considering towing 5000 lbs behind a 5000+ lb. clubcab pickup you need big off-idle torque. Comp, Crane and the other experienced cam manufacturers reccommend short duration cams for RV and towing applications for a reason. Forget about dyno numbers at 3000+ RPM.
I've heard good things about the Yank 2600 for towing - supposedly it pulls much better than stock with the relatively low stall speed and increased STR. The 3K is where there is a comprimise...
JRP - That's actually what I'm going to do. I was going to try and rush over a 206/212, but I'll hold off. I'm unsure if I'll run the 220/220 next week, or go back to stock until more mods are installed next spring. I'm leaning towards going back to stock. I just figured while I had the motor open - why not try something similar to a beefed up stock cam?
Part of my off the shelf shopping (with this TR220) was to go with something popular to get a baseline as to what I exactly want.
I called Comp today, and they recommended the 212/218 as a good all around performance cam for my application. He said there would still be a loss of extreme lowend power until all the common bolt-ons are added. I asked what the person though about the 206, and he told me if I still have the stock cam around, to save my money and put it back in until the motor is built up.
I was a little frustrated because he automatically thought I was after 1/4 mile times. I had to state a few times all I care about is building torque on the stock powerband. He still thought the stocker was my best bet.
Originally Posted by 35th SS
interesting cam discussion guys. nuzee when you heading to the track.will run you n/a just for fun.think weve meet before right!
nuzee when you heading to the track.will run you n/a just for fun.think weve meet before right! Howzit! Thinking about going to the track Friday night. I need time to figure things out with the new cam before lining up with you
I haven't had the chance to run through the gears yet so I don't know what to expect. When I'm confident with the setup not breaking or damaging anything, then let's run em! See you later LS1 Tech Stories
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Originally Posted by marc_w
I asked what the person though about the 206, and he told me if I still have the stock cam around, to save my money and put it back in until the motor is built up.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Lakewood, OH and Grand Marais, MI
Originally Posted by nuzee
Oh Oh, I hope it is true what people say about "tech-line" advice sometimes being given by inexperienced help. Well I hope to be an exception to their advice.
It's clear that the guy on the tech line was more into 1/4 times than torque and driveability issues, and had a hard time grasping waht Marc W. was getting at...
Originally Posted by SSLink
I don't know much about the stock LS1 truck cams but I can tell you that I used to run the Comp 206/212 in my car and it gave me a big boost in the low to midrange over the stock '99 F-Body cam.
It's clear that the guy on the tech line was more into 1/4 times than torque and driveability issues, and had a hard time grasping waht Marc W. was getting at...
It's clear that the guy on the tech line was more into 1/4 times than torque and driveability issues, and had a hard time grasping waht Marc W. was getting at...
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I'm a liar, JRP.
I just got off the phone with Joe and Roger V. They're GREAT GUYS. We talked for quite a while.
Like I said earlier, I think they make cams that really fill in the voids in the cam aftermarket - they're pretty close to being custom, if you look at all the other cam trends out there.
We talked a good while... I explained my frustrations, and Roger basically read my (cam card) specs back at me going by what I was telling him. He told me where things are wrong, and how to improve them.
I've got a 047 coming on Monday.
I just got off the phone with Joe and Roger V. They're GREAT GUYS. We talked for quite a while.
Like I said earlier, I think they make cams that really fill in the voids in the cam aftermarket - they're pretty close to being custom, if you look at all the other cam trends out there.
We talked a good while... I explained my frustrations, and Roger basically read my (cam card) specs back at me going by what I was telling him. He told me where things are wrong, and how to improve them.
I've got a 047 coming on Monday.
Last edited by marc_w; Aug 20, 2004 at 08:04 AM.
Originally Posted by jrp
why dont you just get a custom cam ground to your specs around your particular application and needs instead of swapping off the shelf cam after off the shelf cam.
good luck marc
Originally Posted by marc_w
I'm a liar, JRP.
I just got off the phone with Joe and Roger V. They're GREAT GUYS. We talked for quite a while.
Like I said earlier, I think they make cams that really fill in the voids in the cam aftermarket. We talked a good while... I explained my frustrations, and Roger basically read my (cam card) specs back at me going by what I was telling him. He told me where things are wrong, and how to improve them.
I've got a 047 coming on Monday.
I just got off the phone with Joe and Roger V. They're GREAT GUYS. We talked for quite a while.
Like I said earlier, I think they make cams that really fill in the voids in the cam aftermarket. We talked a good while... I explained my frustrations, and Roger basically read my (cam card) specs back at me going by what I was telling him. He told me where things are wrong, and how to improve them.
I've got a 047 coming on Monday.
Marc
Did Vinci have any opinion on the 206/212 cam? BTW, I think you are making a great choice for what you are after. Please post your impression after you get the asp-kicker installed! Good luck!
vinci is using a 99 vette convertible for a test car. in test five they installed the 047 cam. http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...ARPARENT2.HTML
here's the dyno graph of it. http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...T%20GRAPH.HTML
now you'll look at the test 4 and compare it to the test 5 to see the gain of installing the cam. you'll see only a 29 hp gain and 103 tq gain. one thing you need to know is tests 1, 2, 3, and 4 were done in 2nd gear. test 5 and 6 were done in 3rd gear.
then you'll look at the timeslips and wonder why such a small et gain but losts of mph gain. even with drag radials, this car was a bear to launch without spinning from the abundance of torque. test 6 adds "the BOSS" cam. it took away some tq to allow more hp in the upper rpms. typical of larger cams. at some point you have to trade one for the other.
VHP has always concentrated on tq over hp. they had a drag Z06 vette that went 9s. this time around the test car is concentrating on street abilities. that's why they are using 18" drag radials instead of 16" ET streets. if they used the ET streets, or slicks, this car would be in the 11s easily.
here's the dyno graph of it. http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...T%20GRAPH.HTML
now you'll look at the test 4 and compare it to the test 5 to see the gain of installing the cam. you'll see only a 29 hp gain and 103 tq gain. one thing you need to know is tests 1, 2, 3, and 4 were done in 2nd gear. test 5 and 6 were done in 3rd gear.
then you'll look at the timeslips and wonder why such a small et gain but losts of mph gain. even with drag radials, this car was a bear to launch without spinning from the abundance of torque. test 6 adds "the BOSS" cam. it took away some tq to allow more hp in the upper rpms. typical of larger cams. at some point you have to trade one for the other.
VHP has always concentrated on tq over hp. they had a drag Z06 vette that went 9s. this time around the test car is concentrating on street abilities. that's why they are using 18" drag radials instead of 16" ET streets. if they used the ET streets, or slicks, this car would be in the 11s easily.
Last edited by mrr23; Aug 19, 2004 at 09:29 PM.
Originally Posted by nuzee
35th SS
Howzit! Thinking about going to the track Friday night. I need time to figure things out with the new cam before lining up with you I haven't had the chance to run through the gears yet so I don't know what to expect. When I'm confident with the setup not breaking or damaging anything, then let's run em! See you later
Howzit! Thinking about going to the track Friday night. I need time to figure things out with the new cam before lining up with you
I haven't had the chance to run through the gears yet so I don't know what to expect. When I'm confident with the setup not breaking or damaging anything, then let's run em! See you latermight be there this fri.will see you then.want to see your setup.
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Thanks Nuzee! No, I didn't mention the Comp 206/212 with them. I should have, but we got to talking about all kinds of specs, cams, powerbands with their cams... we were pretty busy with those alone. They convinced me that the have street cams nailed down real well.
Just as MRR23 said, it was explained that the 'Kicker to Boss transition seems to be where the true street performance to street/strip performance transitions takes place.
If for some reason you have an issue with your 206, I wouldn't hesitate to give them a call just to talk.
Just as MRR23 said, it was explained that the 'Kicker to Boss transition seems to be where the true street performance to street/strip performance transitions takes place.
If for some reason you have an issue with your 206, I wouldn't hesitate to give them a call just to talk.
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You guys probably think I'm completely nuts. (No, really. I bet you do!) The '220 started to run really, really good yesterday.
Better than that 'good night' it had during the week. It was like a switch was turned on. For whatever reason the exhaust is louder, throttle responce is "right there", and it pulls just fine on the highway at 2K. Power leading up to that 4K surge is "blended in" now. It even has some snap off idle. I definitely feeling more torque out of this thing now and the powerband is pretty damn fun. **NOW** I see how people can love this cam.
I haven't heard the "quite noticeable" tick/tap from the motor these last few days. I don't know if that has anything to do with this. Either that, or I think I was being too impatient with all of my tunes, and I never gave the computer time to settle in on fuel trims or whatever else it needed to sort out.
I have to go see if I'm still getting lots of KR or not.
The 047 will still be going in as a comparison in a week or two.
Better than that 'good night' it had during the week. It was like a switch was turned on. For whatever reason the exhaust is louder, throttle responce is "right there", and it pulls just fine on the highway at 2K. Power leading up to that 4K surge is "blended in" now. It even has some snap off idle. I definitely feeling more torque out of this thing now and the powerband is pretty damn fun. **NOW** I see how people can love this cam.
I haven't heard the "quite noticeable" tick/tap from the motor these last few days. I don't know if that has anything to do with this. Either that, or I think I was being too impatient with all of my tunes, and I never gave the computer time to settle in on fuel trims or whatever else it needed to sort out.
I have to go see if I'm still getting lots of KR or not.
The 047 will still be going in as a comparison in a week or two.
Last edited by marc_w; Aug 22, 2004 at 10:40 AM.