Worth the cam change?
03-02-2014, 12:11 AM
#1
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Worth the cam change? Like the title says I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to change out the cam from my 224/228 .581 .588 112LSA Cam to a "Sinister" 230/236 .591 .601 112LSA cam. Will I gain much more? The 224/228 gained me 45rwhp but I'm looking for a little more pull
2000 M6 Z28
Other mods besides my current 224/228 cam:
HCR 219cc w/ 62cc chambers from Advanced Induction (11.15 compression)
Cometic .040 head gaskets
LS7 lifters and LS2 lifter trays
42# injectors
LS6 intake and ported stock throttle body
LS6 oil pump
373 gears
Pacesetter long tubes 1 3/4 to 3 inch true duals
2000 M6 Z28
Other mods besides my current 224/228 cam:
HCR 219cc w/ 62cc chambers from Advanced Induction (11.15 compression)
Cometic .040 head gaskets
LS7 lifters and LS2 lifter trays
42# injectors
LS6 intake and ported stock throttle body
LS6 oil pump
373 gears
Pacesetter long tubes 1 3/4 to 3 inch true duals
03-02-2014, 12:15 PM
#3
Like the title says I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to change out the cam from my 224/228 .581 .588 112LSA Cam to a "Sinister" 230/236 .591 .601 112LSA cam. Will I gain much more? The 224/228 gained me 45rwhp but I'm looking for a little more pull
2000 M6 Z28
Other mods besides my current 224/228 cam:
HCR 219cc w/ 62cc chambers from Advanced Induction (11.15 compression)
Cometic .040 head gaskets
LS7 lifters and LS2 lifter trays
42# injectors
LS6 intake and ported stock throttle body
LS6 oil pump
373 gears
Pacesetter long tubes 1 3/4 to 3 inch true duals
2000 M6 Z28
Other mods besides my current 224/228 cam:
HCR 219cc w/ 62cc chambers from Advanced Induction (11.15 compression)
Cometic .040 head gaskets
LS7 lifters and LS2 lifter trays
42# injectors
LS6 intake and ported stock throttle body
LS6 oil pump
373 gears
Pacesetter long tubes 1 3/4 to 3 inch true duals
What are your actual dyno numbers? Who ground your original cam?
03-02-2014, 06:19 PM
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Thanks for all the responses guys! My 224 228 cam is from Texas Speed and DYNO on cam and bolt ons only was 392rwhp and 375 ft lbstq. My cam has huge low-mid range but feels like the power starts falling of between 5500-6500 rpms. I think the sinister cam has a 1800-6800 rpm range, idk what my 224 228 rpm range is but I just want the power to not thin out at the end with the cam.
03-02-2014, 07:20 PM
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How did you calculate the compression ratio at 11.7? I did the compression calculator through race-cars.net and it told me 11.15
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03-02-2014, 08:21 PM
#8
Thanks for all the responses guys! My 224 228 cam is from Texas Speed and DYNO on cam and bolt ons only was 392rwhp and 375 ft lbstq. My cam has huge low-mid range but feels like the power starts falling of between 5500-6500 rpms. I think the sinister cam has a 1800-6800 rpm range, idk what my 224 228 rpm range is but I just want the power to not thin out at the end with the cam.
Let me know and I could help with a cam spec that will increase your mid range to top end power.
Russ Kemp
03-03-2014, 07:43 PM
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Do you know if there is any advance ground into your 224/228 cam? Do you know what the ICL is? Your 224/228 112 cam has 2* overlap. How important is your low rpm/light throttle drive-ability/surge?
Let me know and I could help with a cam spec that will increase your mid range to top end power.
Russ Kemp
Let me know and I could help with a cam spec that will increase your mid range to top end power.
Russ Kemp
03-03-2014, 09:59 PM
#11
I went from a 10* overlap cam in my 418 that had too much low rpm/light throttle surge. I now have the same duration cam, but on a 117 LSA +2 that only has 4* overlap.
The drive ability is 10x better now. Plus the car still has stupid bottom end power and has more mid range to top end power due to the earlier exhaust valve opening.
If it was my car, I would go with a 230/238 .600/.600 116+4 cam. And your overlap will remain unchanged at 2* It will have very similar street manners to your 224/228 cam. But I need to know if your cam has any advance ground in to it, do you know if the cam card says 112+2 (or +4)?
Russ Kemp
03-04-2014, 08:50 AM
#12
I'm surprised a 10* overlap cam in a 418 would be anything but perfectly smooth. My 7* overlap cam in my 346 even runs fine.
A 230/238 116+4 cam will be a turd down low. I tried that cam on a 115+4 and it was anemic below 4500 rpms. I trapped 3 mph faster by going to a 219/231 111+3.
230/238 116+4
3 ivo
47 ivc
59 evo
-1 evc
Will have a narrow, top end oriented, powerband. When you just widen LSA without touching duration to solve driveability issues, you're just shifting everything up in the powerband and losing a lot of torque. A better solution is to reduce duration to reduce overlap. That way, at least you aren't losing your powerband. You're just sacrificing top rpm power to get driveability back, which is a better tradeoff because you will still go fast at the track.
For a street cam that you want 0 overlap with, I like the 220/224 111+1
IVO 0
IVC 40
EVO 44
EVC 0
It will drive smooth and make boat loads of torque. He should just keep his current cam, IMO. It's a proven 346 cam already.
He will gain 20-25 rwhp by going to a fast 92 and a 90mm TB. That is what I would be doing.
A 230/238 116+4 cam will be a turd down low. I tried that cam on a 115+4 and it was anemic below 4500 rpms. I trapped 3 mph faster by going to a 219/231 111+3.
230/238 116+4
3 ivo
47 ivc
59 evo
-1 evc
Will have a narrow, top end oriented, powerband. When you just widen LSA without touching duration to solve driveability issues, you're just shifting everything up in the powerband and losing a lot of torque. A better solution is to reduce duration to reduce overlap. That way, at least you aren't losing your powerband. You're just sacrificing top rpm power to get driveability back, which is a better tradeoff because you will still go fast at the track.
For a street cam that you want 0 overlap with, I like the 220/224 111+1
IVO 0
IVC 40
EVO 44
EVC 0
It will drive smooth and make boat loads of torque. He should just keep his current cam, IMO. It's a proven 346 cam already.
He will gain 20-25 rwhp by going to a fast 92 and a 90mm TB. That is what I would be doing.
Last edited by mchicia1; 03-04-2014 at 08:59 AM.
03-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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I dont have the card with me right now. Ill have to look later. How bad would the 230 236 cam Surge/ low throttle drivability? What rpms would it be difficult? How can you tell the * overlapping of a cam?
Last edited by Silver_Bullet_Z28; 03-04-2014 at 10:02 AM.
03-04-2014, 10:03 AM
#16
Your 3.73 gears and high compression will certainly help though. Driveability is all subjective. Me personally, I wouldn't be afraid of 9 degrees of overlap with 3.73 gears and over 11:1 compression. But it will have some bucking at steady state throttle 1500 rpms and lower. The harshness of that will depend on who is tuning it.
Like the others said though, you will gain huge with a fast intake. Don't read into the lies that an ls6 is almost as good. When you have ported heads and a decent sized cam like you have, the fast and 90mm TB is almost always worth 20+ rwhp over an ls6 + 78mm.
Last edited by mchicia1; 03-04-2014 at 10:10 AM.
03-04-2014, 11:29 AM
#18
I'm surprised a 10* overlap cam in a 418 would be anything but perfectly smooth. My 7* overlap cam in my 346 even runs fine.
A 230/238 116+4 cam will be a turd down low. I tried that cam on a 115+4 and it was anemic below 4500 rpms. I trapped 3 mph faster by going to a 219/231 111+3.
230/238 116+4
3 ivo
47 ivc
59 evo
-1 evc
Will have a narrow, top end oriented, powerband. When you just widen LSA without touching duration to solve driveability issues, you're just shifting everything up in the powerband and losing a lot of torque. A better solution is to reduce duration to reduce overlap. That way, at least you aren't losing your powerband. You're just sacrificing top rpm power to get driveability back, which is a better tradeoff because you will still go fast at the track.
For a street cam that you want 0 overlap with, I like the 220/224 111+1
IVO 0
IVC 40
EVO 44
EVC 0
It will drive smooth and make boat loads of torque. He should just keep his current cam, IMO. It's a proven 346 cam already.
He will gain 20-25 rwhp by going to a fast 92 and a 90mm TB. That is what I would be doing.
A 230/238 116+4 cam will be a turd down low. I tried that cam on a 115+4 and it was anemic below 4500 rpms. I trapped 3 mph faster by going to a 219/231 111+3.
230/238 116+4
3 ivo
47 ivc
59 evo
-1 evc
Will have a narrow, top end oriented, powerband. When you just widen LSA without touching duration to solve driveability issues, you're just shifting everything up in the powerband and losing a lot of torque. A better solution is to reduce duration to reduce overlap. That way, at least you aren't losing your powerband. You're just sacrificing top rpm power to get driveability back, which is a better tradeoff because you will still go fast at the track.
For a street cam that you want 0 overlap with, I like the 220/224 111+1
IVO 0
IVC 40
EVO 44
EVC 0
It will drive smooth and make boat loads of torque. He should just keep his current cam, IMO. It's a proven 346 cam already.
He will gain 20-25 rwhp by going to a fast 92 and a 90mm TB. That is what I would be doing.
The OP also mentioned that he wants no surging at low rpm/light throttle, like the cam he has. He will absolutely hate a 9* overlap cam's manners.
A 220/224 111+4 cam is going backwards for the OP, it will have more low end power that he doesn't want and it will make a lot less top end power (he wants more). That would be a great came for a low rpm pick up truck that is used for towing.
Russ Kemp
03-04-2014, 11:47 AM
#20
The OP has indicated that he has huge low end & mid range power with his cam, and he wants to pick up his top end power. His cam now closes the intake valve at 44* ABC, the cam I recommended is 47* ABC. When I had the G5X3 114 cam at 110 ICL in my 346, the exhaust vale also closed at 47* ABC, and traction in 1st gear was useless (305/30/19 tire).
The OP also mentioned that he wants no surging at low rpm/light throttle, like the cam he has. He will absolutely hate a 9* overlap cam's manners.
A 220/224 111+4 cam is going backwards for the OP, it will have more low end power that he doesn't want and it will make a lot less top end power (he wants more). That would be a great came for a low rpm pick up truck that is used for towing.
Russ Kemp
The OP also mentioned that he wants no surging at low rpm/light throttle, like the cam he has. He will absolutely hate a 9* overlap cam's manners.
A 220/224 111+4 cam is going backwards for the OP, it will have more low end power that he doesn't want and it will make a lot less top end power (he wants more). That would be a great came for a low rpm pick up truck that is used for towing.
Russ Kemp
I think a good compromise from yours would be a:
228/234 113+2
It won't be as peaky, but it will still have better peak power than the current cam and probably not give up much, if anything in the mid range. 5 degrees of overlap with his gears and compression is also easily streetable and any good tuner should be able to get that running very smooth.