New here, thought I share my LQ4 build with everyone.
05-15-2014, 01:40 AM
#1
New here, thought I share my LQ4 build with everyone. Hello all,
First off great forum, lots of info for us novice's who are jumping into the LS-based engines. I've been using the search function a lot to gather info on my LQ4 build. So far I'm just concentrating on the engine build, once the engine is built, it will make it's home in my 94 Buick Roadmaster Wagon.
So what I got is a 2006 LQ4 6.0 engine w/317 heads that I got from a shop for about $400. I kind of made a big gamble seeing that it was just a long block that has been sitting out in the open weather for possibly several weeks or possibly months. Apparently it had low compression from what the shop owner had told me.
Soon as I got it back to my own shop, I tore down what remained. (basically rotating assembly as the heads were already removed prior to me taking the long block) Everything seemed okay but as mentioned this block was left out in the open and one of the cylinders did get a whole bunch of water inside and severely began to rust. Another issue arose when taking out the main caps, looks like No. 1 bearing had spun, crank was severely scored and is pretty much junk. At this point I wasn't holding out much hope if my $400 block & heads just turned into a heavy boat anchors. It took some time but I was able to get the piston out of the severely rusted cylinder bore. After it was removed I check the surface of the cylinder and sure enough the rust had started pitting the wall. After inspecting everything else it looks like this engine had been possibly re-build before as the rod and main caps had number markings already stamped on them, it was looking quite gloomy at this point thinking that possibly that the cylinders would have already been over-bored and it will have to be over-bored again or possibly already over-bored to its maximum limit.
Either way I took the block and heads to Clay's Machine Shop to have everything properly cleaned an inspected. A few days later got a call from them, already I was expecting the worse. They told me that the heads will need some work but all-in-all were in good shape, no cracks, no warpage. The block turns out to be in good shape too, no cracks or anything, however they did tell me due to the spun main bearing that it will need the mains to be line honed or bored, also that even though one of the cylinders has rust pitting that the cylinder bores are still standard size and can be bored .030 over. I was quite happy at this point seeing that I didn't have a load of junk parts in my hands, now I have a solid foundation to build up. They did tell me to take the block to Janke's Machine Shop to get the mains line bored and eventually over bore the cylinders too while it was there.
So now the block is over at Janke's ready to have the mains line bored, but I would have to wait till my ARP main studs come in the mail before he can get started. I will probably get the heads back and do some light porting and polish while the block is at Janke's.
With all that said, now comes time to source what direction I want go to with this engine. Just like everyone else here has asked a million times, my goal is to reach between 400 to 500 rwhp. (I do plan on rebuilding a 95 4l60e transmission that came off a Chevy Caprice that will be able to handle the power output from the engine, but thats another time, another story)
Also this engine will be in my daily driver as well so it will need to have components that are not just for performance but also for longevity and reliability. (LS engines by design are just that) So keeping some of the same stock components would also save on cost unless I see that for a few extra dollars I can upgrade to a better product than stock.
Another thing to note that I probably won't be racing it evey-weekend and really the idea to have 400-500rwhp would be "on-tap" in the power band of the cam. In most cases the engine would be just cursing highway and the streets. I do have a NOS kit from a previous car that I would be looking into to install in the future, but again, it will be only for the times I hit the track which won't all the time. (An example would be like one or twice a month)
So here is what I got listed that I do need.
Heads
1. Intake Valves (stock ones on the heads are slightly out of round and need to be replaced, may look into upgrade all the valves seeing as the stock GM valves are 2-piece design)
2. Rockers (would like to at least upgrade the stock ones, I'm kind of leaning to SLP's)
3. Springs (I hear beehive springs from Comp Cams are a good investment)
4. Polish & Clean heads (I do want to clean up the runners and smooth them out, but at the current time I'm not sure if I should port-match the intake and exhaust runners seeing as I do not have the intake or exhaust manifolds, I was thinking about trying to find a LS6 intake with fuel rails and injectors still installed and for exhaust I was thinking of getting Holley's LS exhaust manifolds for swaps.)
5. Cam (I was eyeing getting a Comp Cams 54-416-11, saw that it good results with the stock 317 heads)
Engine
1. Crankshaft (Old one is scored and probably not worth saving, O'Reilly has a crack available for just over $200, will probably send it to the machine shop anyway just to make sure its still balanced after shipping.)
2. Pistons (Seeing that the engine will be over-bored .030, I will need to change out the pistons, keeping costs down I'm not sure if its best to reuse the stock rods or purchase an upgrade for the rods. Of course ARP bolts will hold them.
With all that said, I think my main priority is getting the rotating assembly going first then the heads. So finding a good set of pistons to go along with the stock rods would be the first thing I need to search for.
If you guys have any pointers or suggestions please feel free to let me know.
First off great forum, lots of info for us novice's who are jumping into the LS-based engines. I've been using the search function a lot to gather info on my LQ4 build. So far I'm just concentrating on the engine build, once the engine is built, it will make it's home in my 94 Buick Roadmaster Wagon.
So what I got is a 2006 LQ4 6.0 engine w/317 heads that I got from a shop for about $400. I kind of made a big gamble seeing that it was just a long block that has been sitting out in the open weather for possibly several weeks or possibly months. Apparently it had low compression from what the shop owner had told me.
Soon as I got it back to my own shop, I tore down what remained. (basically rotating assembly as the heads were already removed prior to me taking the long block) Everything seemed okay but as mentioned this block was left out in the open and one of the cylinders did get a whole bunch of water inside and severely began to rust. Another issue arose when taking out the main caps, looks like No. 1 bearing had spun, crank was severely scored and is pretty much junk. At this point I wasn't holding out much hope if my $400 block & heads just turned into a heavy boat anchors. It took some time but I was able to get the piston out of the severely rusted cylinder bore. After it was removed I check the surface of the cylinder and sure enough the rust had started pitting the wall. After inspecting everything else it looks like this engine had been possibly re-build before as the rod and main caps had number markings already stamped on them, it was looking quite gloomy at this point thinking that possibly that the cylinders would have already been over-bored and it will have to be over-bored again or possibly already over-bored to its maximum limit.
Either way I took the block and heads to Clay's Machine Shop to have everything properly cleaned an inspected. A few days later got a call from them, already I was expecting the worse. They told me that the heads will need some work but all-in-all were in good shape, no cracks, no warpage. The block turns out to be in good shape too, no cracks or anything, however they did tell me due to the spun main bearing that it will need the mains to be line honed or bored, also that even though one of the cylinders has rust pitting that the cylinder bores are still standard size and can be bored .030 over. I was quite happy at this point seeing that I didn't have a load of junk parts in my hands, now I have a solid foundation to build up. They did tell me to take the block to Janke's Machine Shop to get the mains line bored and eventually over bore the cylinders too while it was there.
So now the block is over at Janke's ready to have the mains line bored, but I would have to wait till my ARP main studs come in the mail before he can get started. I will probably get the heads back and do some light porting and polish while the block is at Janke's.
With all that said, now comes time to source what direction I want go to with this engine. Just like everyone else here has asked a million times, my goal is to reach between 400 to 500 rwhp. (I do plan on rebuilding a 95 4l60e transmission that came off a Chevy Caprice that will be able to handle the power output from the engine, but thats another time, another story)
Also this engine will be in my daily driver as well so it will need to have components that are not just for performance but also for longevity and reliability. (LS engines by design are just that) So keeping some of the same stock components would also save on cost unless I see that for a few extra dollars I can upgrade to a better product than stock.
Another thing to note that I probably won't be racing it evey-weekend and really the idea to have 400-500rwhp would be "on-tap" in the power band of the cam. In most cases the engine would be just cursing highway and the streets. I do have a NOS kit from a previous car that I would be looking into to install in the future, but again, it will be only for the times I hit the track which won't all the time. (An example would be like one or twice a month)
So here is what I got listed that I do need.
Heads
1. Intake Valves (stock ones on the heads are slightly out of round and need to be replaced, may look into upgrade all the valves seeing as the stock GM valves are 2-piece design)
2. Rockers (would like to at least upgrade the stock ones, I'm kind of leaning to SLP's)
3. Springs (I hear beehive springs from Comp Cams are a good investment)
4. Polish & Clean heads (I do want to clean up the runners and smooth them out, but at the current time I'm not sure if I should port-match the intake and exhaust runners seeing as I do not have the intake or exhaust manifolds, I was thinking about trying to find a LS6 intake with fuel rails and injectors still installed and for exhaust I was thinking of getting Holley's LS exhaust manifolds for swaps.)
5. Cam (I was eyeing getting a Comp Cams 54-416-11, saw that it good results with the stock 317 heads)
Engine
1. Crankshaft (Old one is scored and probably not worth saving, O'Reilly has a crack available for just over $200, will probably send it to the machine shop anyway just to make sure its still balanced after shipping.)
2. Pistons (Seeing that the engine will be over-bored .030, I will need to change out the pistons, keeping costs down I'm not sure if its best to reuse the stock rods or purchase an upgrade for the rods. Of course ARP bolts will hold them.
With all that said, I think my main priority is getting the rotating assembly going first then the heads. So finding a good set of pistons to go along with the stock rods would be the first thing I need to search for.
If you guys have any pointers or suggestions please feel free to let me know.
05-15-2014, 09:23 AM
#2
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Since you already have it disassembled I would go with upgraded pistons and rods just for peace of mind if you have the budget for it. Making 400 RWHP will be the easy part, making 500 you are probably going to sacrifice some driveability. That is bad *** that you are putting it in a roadmaster wagon; ultimate sleeper. My dad has a 1996 Cadillac with the LT1 and I am begging him to give it to me so I can modify the hell out of it.
Here is my setup in my LS6 Vette: Made 420 RWHP 383 RWTQ you will make more since it's a 6.0.
234 238 599 601 112 LSA Lunati cam 243 heads (Milled slightly) Brian Tooley racing springs, good to 660 lift, full exhaust with no cats, and a cold air intake. It's not too bad to drive every day, the lope isn't very bad at all.
Here is my setup in my LS6 Vette: Made 420 RWHP 383 RWTQ you will make more since it's a 6.0.
234 238 599 601 112 LSA Lunati cam 243 heads (Milled slightly) Brian Tooley racing springs, good to 660 lift, full exhaust with no cats, and a cold air intake. It's not too bad to drive every day, the lope isn't very bad at all.
05-15-2014, 11:03 AM
#3
Since you already have it disassembled I would go with upgraded pistons and rods just for peace of mind if you have the budget for it. Making 400 RWHP will be the easy part, making 500 you are probably going to sacrifice some driveability. That is bad *** that you are putting it in a roadmaster wagon; ultimate sleeper. My dad has a 1996 Cadillac with the LT1 and I am begging him to give it to me so I can modify the hell out of it.
Here is my setup in my LS6 Vette: Made 420 RWHP 383 RWTQ you will make more since it's a 6.0.
234 238 599 601 112 LSA Lunati cam 243 heads (Milled slightly) Brian Tooley racing springs, good to 660 lift, full exhaust with no cats, and a cold air intake. It's not too bad to drive every day, the lope isn't very bad at all.
Here is my setup in my LS6 Vette: Made 420 RWHP 383 RWTQ you will make more since it's a 6.0.
234 238 599 601 112 LSA Lunati cam 243 heads (Milled slightly) Brian Tooley racing springs, good to 660 lift, full exhaust with no cats, and a cold air intake. It's not too bad to drive every day, the lope isn't very bad at all.
Yeah, you can totally see where I'm going with this engine.
05-15-2014, 11:35 AM
#4
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I've been trying to search for a good piston and rod combo but the majority of the combo's I see are complete rotating assembly that include the crank, which I really don't need a whole new crank seeing that I'm not really gonna be pushing the engine that much plus it really pushes the budget that I'm trying to keep.
Yeah, you can totally see where I'm going with this engine.
Yeah, you can totally see where I'm going with this engine.
05-16-2014, 12:48 AM
#5
Alrighty, moving forward I think I got a good rotating assembly pieced together.
Rods
Scat Pro Comp I-Beam - Part # 26125716 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-26125716
Pistons
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04
Crank
Stock replacement w/rod & main bearings - O'reilly part #11110
I will probably will have the machine shop balance the whole setup, but I think all this is a good combo and all the spec's look to fit. Any objections?
Rods
Scat Pro Comp I-Beam - Part # 26125716 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-26125716
Pistons
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04
Crank
Stock replacement w/rod & main bearings - O'reilly part #11110
I will probably will have the machine shop balance the whole setup, but I think all this is a good combo and all the spec's look to fit. Any objections?
06-05-2014, 04:01 PM
#6
Just a quick update.
Got my block back today, line bored, and over bored .030. Crank spins so smoothly. All in all, $800 from Janke's. I would say its fair since they did have to line bore to get the damage out from spun main bearing #1. Plus they had to get a crankshaft, balance, over bore the cylinders and install the new cam bearings.
Got my block back today, line bored, and over bored .030. Crank spins so smoothly. All in all, $800 from Janke's. I would say its fair since they did have to line bore to get the damage out from spun main bearing #1. Plus they had to get a crankshaft, balance, over bore the cylinders and install the new cam bearings.
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06-09-2014, 11:47 PM
#12
How did they balance your crank with out piston and rods?
My engine shop had my crank for a month and when it was go time and I set a deadline for the balance they call and tell me they had to add a ton of weight to my stock crank to balance out, suggested I get after market. Long story short I paid an extra $200 for the balance on just the crank as the time to order in stroker kit with new pistons would not have meet my deadline.
Welcome to the site, you will get the best response to your answer if you start your own thread and give us some more details of what engine you have ect.
My engine shop had my crank for a month and when it was go time and I set a deadline for the balance they call and tell me they had to add a ton of weight to my stock crank to balance out, suggested I get after market. Long story short I paid an extra $200 for the balance on just the crank as the time to order in stroker kit with new pistons would not have meet my deadline.
Welcome to the site, you will get the best response to your answer if you start your own thread and give us some more details of what engine you have ect.
06-09-2014, 11:50 PM
#13
How did they balance your crank with out piston and rods?
My engine shop had my crank for a month and when it was go time and I set a deadline for the balance they call and tell me they had to add a ton of weight to my stock crank to balance out, suggested I get after market. Long story short I paid an extra $200 for the balance on just the crank as the time to order in stroker kit with new pistons would not have meet my deadline.
My engine shop had my crank for a month and when it was go time and I set a deadline for the balance they call and tell me they had to add a ton of weight to my stock crank to balance out, suggested I get after market. Long story short I paid an extra $200 for the balance on just the crank as the time to order in stroker kit with new pistons would not have meet my deadline.
06-09-2014, 11:53 PM
#14
I ordered the same pistons and was going to go the scat rod way, However I got the LS3 ones as that's the heads I was putting on and same piston but different cut out for valve.
06-10-2014, 12:08 AM
#16
Your Pistons
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04131
Mine I got are the same besides I got lS3 that have bigger reliefs cut into them.
Mine are #LS31314030F04
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04131
Mine I got are the same besides I got lS3 that have bigger reliefs cut into them.
Mine are #LS31314030F04
06-10-2014, 12:11 AM
#17
Your Pistons
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04131
Mine I got are the same besides I got lS3 that have bigger reliefs cut into them.
Mine are #LS31314030F04
Mahle PowerPack Piston & Ring Kit - Part # LS1314030F04 @ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-ls1314030f04131
Mine I got are the same besides I got lS3 that have bigger reliefs cut into them.
Mine are #LS31314030F04
Ohhh, now I see. For me I think the LS1 will do fine with the 317 heads I have. I was planning on sending them out to port out, but thats gonna push the budget over so the plan is to just get new stainless intake and exhaust valves from Manley and do a simple valve job on them. I'm trying not to deck or mill the heads to keep my compression ratio 9-10:1 even though I got the flat tops from Mahle.
One thing I would say is the Mahle pistons don't really have a direction dot or pointer to orientate the piston. Then again its not that hard to find out.
