Thee Antic

iTrader: (1)

I know, I know..bigger isn't always better.

I bought my 228r way back before I made 1001 changes to my build. As of now my goal is still 425rwhp. Actually no, I don't care what the sheet says. I just want something in the 400's that throws me back in the seat.

• 243 heads, 2.02 & 1.60 with bowl blend (untouched throats? or are they runners?), milled down to 58cc chambers. I believe it worked out to .030 off of one and a little less off of the other.
  
• Attempting to stay around ~11:1 static and ~8.6 dynamic with a .040 quench area
  
• Forged shortblock with -3cc piston valve reliefs
  
• 1 7/8" LT
  
• Poor boy LS6 intake
  
• M6 and 3.38 gears

I believe thats all that is relevant for a cam selection..

This is going in a strictly DD car. I might take it to the track once or twice a year but by no means will it be a drag monster. Aka I don't give a flying f**k about top end power if it sacrifices the down low. The only track it might see is the autocross course..so shared characteristics of a DD.

That being said, I feel like the 228r might be a little small/outdated. If I'm crazy just tell me so. I just don't want to leave anything on the table with the outrageous amounts of money I have into this build.

Thanks gents - Brian

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Going bigger isn't going to help your down low power, and is actually going against your "Aka I don't give a flying f**k about top end power if it sacrifices the down low." idea.

You should look for a similar cam but maybe with the intake duration a little shorter to build more compression and torque. Or up your static compression and keep the 228 intake duration.

Both of those will make it snappier and improve low end torque and even efficiency for a daily driver.

Thee Antic

iTrader: (1)

Well, I still need to see where my pistons are at sitting in the block but I always read 11:1 was a safe compression for pump. A zero deck would bring me to 11.3 I think. Anyways, kind of off topic.

So your saying anything bigger actually goes against low end power? Interesting. What about Ticks torquer series? I forget the exact specs but I thought it was a 228ish 234 for their stage 2. For a cam marketed towards torque I figured it would be a little better off.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Honestly..based on everything you said...I would touch a thing here. Big waste of time and money IMO

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

My first suggestion to you based on your post is to get some 3.73 or 4.10 gears. That will help your seat of the pants more than anything.

Second suggestion is get your heads CNC ported.

1 Slow WS6

iTrader: (1)

You should make over 400 with the 228 R and right setup. When I had mine I did 430/400. Gears would definitely help out SOTP feel. My 4.11 was night and day from the 3.42.

jb3golf

Dude when you say you need something bigger what does that mean to YOU? As in, something faster under 4,000 rpm? Or something faster past 4,000 rpm? Your op tells me you really aren't clear on what you want...is it more seat of the pants at low rpm? I guarantee you do not want to go any bigger than your 228r....that cam is awesome and should be providing you with plenty of torque at all rpms....i would read all the replies over again because the feedback you are getting is SPOT ON in this thread so far....

jb3golf

Also...i see you mentioned the tick performance camshafts. ..let me say a couple of things...I can tell you i just finished up installing a SNS stage 2 camshaft (227/235@110+3) with .650 AFR springs to match my AFR 210 V2 heads....NOW. ..I had a VRX4 cam (228/230 @112+4) that drove awesome and pulled like a freight train for days....The reason I made the change was because I wanted to increase my torque numbers under 4500 rpm's and extend my overall power band to about 6700-6800 rpm. The 110 LSA has brought that power down a few hundred rpm...The SNS stage 2 is unreal because the power band just goes and goes..whereas the VRX4 drops off considerably around 6300...Also the LSL lobes on the SNS cam are newer technology and much easier on the valvetrain..i was looking for more stability..which the SNS lobes provide...was the VRX4 louder? Yes..did it feel like it pulled a bit harder? Yes...but what you feel isnt always real....because the vrx4 was very hard on the valvetrain and actually FELT abusive compared to the Smoothness of the LSL lobes on the tick cam...Also the lope on the SNS stage 2 is hard to beat for its size...The point here is I had specific goals and wasn't expecting a huge change powerwise...and i received what i sought after..

jb3golf

EXACTLY.....that being said I think the SNS stage 2 will give you a bit more torque down low and will increase your dynamic compression. ...just a thought here..what LSA is your 228r on?

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Yes, bigger cams usually mean giving up lowend torque for topend power. The tick cam is significantly more advanced and tighter LSA so you get the best of both worlds (but at the cost of driveability).

Thee Antic

iTrader: (1)

The 228r I have is a 112 lsa.

I don't think I contradicted myself? I am focused on power down low since that's where I will be 99% of the time as a DD.

I'm a little ill versed on cam lobe types. What does the 228r use? I don't mind changing out valve springs every so often but less wear and tear is always a good thing.

Also what kind of difference would I see going to the SNS stage 2? Since I already have the 228r it would need to be significant enough to warrant the hassle of selling my current cam.

How would driveability suffer from the SNS cam?

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

Almost any cam bigger than the 228r is going to sacrifice some power down low. It's the whole reason I sold my 228r and went to something smaller. A set of AFR205/210's would do wonders for the low end. Much more than any cam change.

The 228r uses an XE-r lobe which has very fast ramp rates although not the fastest(LSK are the fastest commonly used I think). I also went with softer lobes for a more stable valve train(HUC/QXX). Martin specced out my cam.

Thee Antic

iTrader: (1)

Haha AFR's are most definitely out of the picture.

I'm good with the half *** port job I have now. If I'm not happy down the road I'll sell the ones I have and buy some PRC's.

The more I read, the more confused I become..

jb3golf

No Antic you are not confused...I see where you are coming from...i get the feeling you want more torque down low...and if that's the case...seriously look into the SNS stage 1 cam (223/227) @ 111 + 2 I think. .you would have more stable lobes...and your power band would shift lower in the rpm range by several Hundred rpm's. ...that would put a bigger smile on your face since it's a dd...otherwise I wouldn't waste time on a SNS stage 2....because the difference you'd feel wouldn't be worth the labor and headache. ...again..my vrx4 cam was great..and its specs are similar to your 228r....and the change to the SNS stage 2 was not substantial in difference. ..but huge in terms of power band range and valvetrain stability. ..no doubt I felt smooth power versus abusive power first hand....

Thee Antic

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate the reccomendation, but after many hours of reading I believe I have it narrowed down.

• SNS stage 2, tuned by Martin seeing as he is only ~4 hours away
  
• Streetsweeper High torque made by Ed Curtis, tuned by PCMforless or whatever their new name is
  
• 228r tuned by who cares.

All undeniably make great power..I am leaning slightly towards the SNS stage 2 just because it would be tuned by the creator of said cam. I don't think I could do better than that. Or maybe I should make it a race and see which shop chimes in first

gagliano7

Your best move for your goals is gears. That would wake up your car down low more than any cam.

grimmfenyaxi

I would touch a thing here. Big waste of time and money IMO

Joey@Tick

iTrader: (20)

We'd love to do business with you Brian! Give Martin a call or shoot him an email at support@tickperformance.com and he'll get you pointed in the right direction.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

There is no way I would swap cams before putting some better gears in there.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Agreed. Your post illustrating your goals and intentions is confusing. I can't give advice because I don't know what it is you want. A cam swap probably isn't it though. It sounds like you have a decent knowledge base but need to do more reading and learning before you make any major changes. Good luck.