Lil'John

SETUP:
Mostly stock LQ4 from 2004 Silverado 2500 HD swapped into 71 Toyota Land Cruiser with an NV4500 transmission. The rig is used as a daily driver and a rock crawler. No mud/sand... more "technical" wheeling.

Exhaust is currently Hooker header short center dump going to 2 1/4" cross over and 2 1/4" all the way back. It is getting trashed shortly.

New exhaust will start with C6 manifolds like these(Jet coated though):


I'm still on the air how the exhaust will go afterwards. Considering 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 dual with MagnaFlow 12468 muffler(2 in, 2 out).

Issue #1:
One issue I'm trying to solve with a new cam is what I'll call valve rattle at higher rpms 5k+.

Issue #2:
I'd like to squeak a little more MPG out of the engine. Yes, it has larger tires and the aerodynamics of a brick.

Goal is to keep low end off idle responsiveness while gaining a little bit of rev room at the top.

I don't mind sacrificing a little horse power to squeak more mpg.

I've heard stock LS6 cam thrown around a bit. Does this fit the bill?

Any other cams should look into?

Any other changes I should consider with the cam? Valve springs, rockers, etc?

ragtopz28

iTrader: (57)

BTR makes some interesting truck cams or you could get a custom grind from a sponsor>>>>>and tell em exactly what your looking for.

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the mention!

We have a special right now, any truck cam and springs for $419 shipped.

http://www.briantooleyracing.com/btr-truck-cam-kit-with-springs-and-your-choice-of-camshaft.html

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

LS6 is totally the wrong cam for your needs; don't get it!
Cams I'd look at:
http://www.mcssl.com/store/cammotion...-compression-4
http://www.mcssl.com/store/cammotion...-compression-2

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=4626

Comp cams #54-451-11(208/212 115lsa+4, lift .554"/.558')
http://www.coloradospeed.com/comp-ca...er-p-3806.html

BTR
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/btr...-camshaft.html

Lil'John

Thanks for the heads up on the LS6 not being the right cam for my application.

It sounds like one of the big upgrades at the same time is springs(should take care of valve rattle issue)

Is it worth upgrading or replacing rockers and push rods? Motor has under 50k miles.

Thanks for jumping in here Brian. If you don't mind, how would you compare your stage 1, 2, and 3 truck cams to the stock 2004 version?

My curiosity points are:
Off idle
MPG @ about 2500 rpm (my 70-75mph)
Upper RPM gain

My current for the above are:
- not great off idle
- MPG is currently 12mpg
- Upper seems to valve rattle at about 5600rpm

Once I cam, I plan to tune the PCM after camming it.

For what it is worth, the rig is s10 blazer body sized with 35" tires and 4.88 gears.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

You normally need slightly longer PRs with a aftermarket cam, better valve springs (PAC-1218s will be plenty good with any of my recommendations cams), an the trunion upgrade is all that's needed with the factory rockers.

Lil'John

Bringing this back from the grave since I now have to pull the water pump.

The setup is C6 exhaust manifolds to 2.25" cross over out to 3" single exhaust.

The intended use of this vehicle is daily driver, towing up to about 7k pounds, and non-abusive technical hard offroading. The offroading requires good off-idle responsiveness.

I've talked to some vendors and I'm now at a loss. So here are the contenders:
1) Tick Performance TowMAX Stage 1 : 208/216 | .561"/.561" | LSA113+4
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...4-lq9-engines/
2) Cammotion XA206/308-XA212/295-114+4 : 206 / 212 | .523" / .501 | 114 with 110 intake center line
Didn't find link on web page
3) Brian Tooley Truck Stage 1 : 206/212 | .525/.534 | 114+2
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/tr...age-i-cam.html
4) Brian Tooley Truck Stage 2 : 212/218 | 553/.553 | 113+2
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/tr...ge-ii-cam.html

I am largely leaning away from BTR Truck Stage 2 because the description states "sacrifice of some low end torque and fuel mileage".

Of the three left, #2 and #3 feel almost the same.

But, to keep the question open ended, what are the driving characteristic differences between #1, #2, and #3?

Leaving any vendor issues you might have out, what would make you pick one cam over the others?

I don't mind leaving impressive high rpm HP/TQ gains on the table if it results in a much better driver in the 800 to 2500 rpm range.

Also, is it worth the extra ~$10 or so to go from a beehive valve spring to a dual spring like the BTR platinum? Is there any downside to the dual style?

99 2500

Hard to beat the 1449041 crane cam specs 210/218 550 lift 114+4

Lil'John

Thanks for the recommendation. This appears to be closer to the 212/218 which looses some low end torque and fuel mileage.

So I'll pose the same question I did for the others: why would you pick this over a 206/212 or 208/216?

How does this 210/218 fit good off-idle responsiveness and ~7k pound occasional tow?

99 2500

It's what I'm using in a 4x4 2500 extended cab long bed and has more power from idle to 6000 rpm than stock cam without affecting mileage

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi, the cams you have chosen are VERY close to a OEM LS-2 Camshaft or a OEM LS-3, why spend extra when a 2nd LS is SO CLOSE ?

I would fit Yellow or Blue OEM Springs, again LOW Cost.

The LS-2 engine will "rev" over 7500 RPM, OEM.

I would ask you to use a Spark Plug Gap of .065"
This will help reduce your fuel consumption if NOW set lower ?

SPEND your money on a tune, the GM tune is designed NOT to break the 4WD.

This is VERY bad for millage.

Raise the Coil Dwell providing a stronger spark.

I would fit one of my Avon Gear Timing Sets @ +2 degrees.
I would fit a 2010 Camaro GM OIL PUMP with a small OP Shim.

Would you like my help ?

Lance

Lil'John

Pantera, thank you for the feedback. A tune is on the list to do... I'm not happy with my current tune so it was changing anyways.

Pulling all the cam info together:

• LS2 cam is listed as 204/211 .525 lift 116.5 lsa
• LS3 cam is listed as 204/211 .551/.525 117 lsa
• Tick Performance TowMAX Stage 1 : 208/216 | .561"/.561" | LSA113+4
• Cammotion XA206/308-XA212/295-114+4 : 206 / 212 | .523" / .501 | 114 with 110 intake center line
• Brian Tooley Truck Stage 1 : 206/212 | .525/.534 | 114+2

Please correct me of the LS2/LS3 are incorrect.

From the above, the non-OEM seem to have lower lobe separation(113-114) compared to the OEM ones(117) My general understanding is this impacts idle and it appears off-idle characteristics... usually the higher number seems to be "racing" type.

The lift seems very similar for all of them.

Duration is lower for the OEM ones while higher on the non-OEM. My general understanding is this impacts RPM range.

I won't say money doesn't matter but I'm willing to spend it to ensure I get the results I want. I won't be buying a used cam.

So I'll pose the same question I did for the others: why would you pick this over a 206/212 or 208/216?

How does this 204/211 fit good off-idle responsiveness and ~7k pound occasional tow?

c4boom

iTrader: (1)

top things to look for is small amounts of overlap and don't go over 220 deg of duration at 0.050 also look for something with a 114 -116 lsa

Lil'John

Unfortunately, you just described the Tick Performance, Cammotion, and Brian Tooley Truck Stage 1 cams I was considering when I revived this thread and rules out the LS2/LS3 cams... so I'm a bit confused where to go.

All three vendors appear to be respected on LS1 Tech and the Brian Tooley parts I ordered for another project(turbo 5.3) were very nice and the engine shop commented on the great quality.

Right now, the above three appear to cover what I want but I don't have enough knowledge to pick one that would be better than throwing a dart.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Lil john

Take a look at our Truck Cams. As you will see a lot of the cams are around similar duration and lift. The main differences will come in the lobe design. (Not all 208 duration lobes are the same) The best way to make an informed decision is to take a look at the torque and HP curves of each camshaft. We offer 3 stages of truck cams and we can provide you the dyno sheet for each. these were tested in the last couple months on a stock 5.3 motor. You can compare these to others you are considering.

If interested in see the actual results of the camshafts, give us a call and we can email them out to you.

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-1158-ts...e-springs.aspx

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

The lift and duration specs are similar but the LS2 and 3 cams are gonna shift the power higher in the RPM range and you can tell this guy is all about low end.

Lil John: Out of the cams you mentioned I would go with the towmax or something similar, that +4 is advance and will bring everything in earlier.

I would not use any stock LS cam for your application, google hotrod LS cam test, you'll see how all the stock cams that increase power, all give up power in the low range when compared to a stock truck cam. They do however keep pulling past the stock truck cam but it sounds like you aren't interested in upper RPM power. Also if you wan't better fuel mileage around 2500 rpm then you want peak efficiency around there, and the truck cams would be better for that.

If you use a drop in truck cam with 550 or less lift you can get away with stock springs or LS6/LS2 springs that only cost about $70 brand new.


But more than anything, I recommend calling Texas Speed or BTR and discuss your goals with them and cut out the guess work.

Lil'John

I tried to submit a request for dyno sheet through web site but after about six tries with your anti-spam pictures, I sent you a PM.

I think you've nailed my concern/intent. I'm not trying for maximum hp/tq gains especially where I won't be using them. I'm trying to get better low RPM performance/characteristics.

For the springs, they were going to be replaced... the stock springs are allowing the valves to rattle during some of my road use I was considering just going straight to the BTR platinum dual springs instead of the LS6/LS2 springs.

For the last suggestion, I actually have contacted(emailed) a couple of vendors and I won't claim an overall great experience thus far. It may come down to the fact that I'm not looking for a typical "racer" cam and the vendors aren't used to that. It could also be they just don't know how their cams work off-idle and down low.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Lil John, I sent you over a couple dyno sheets to your email. If you need anything else just let us know.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi, another choice for your request is to FIT a camshaft with VVT.

This method will SOLVE your requirement, a good VVT grind.

Then use my VVT "stand alone" Controller @ $200.00 to calibrate the Advance Angle.

Lance

gagliano7

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls-cam-test-comparison/