A "system matched camshaft"
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On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: Cincinnati
A "system matched camshaft" After browsing the forums on here for years; I decided to create myself an account so I can be more interactive in the forums.
I have recently purchased some High compression 241 castings from AI, and I am also looking into their cams that they match for their heads. I currently run the MS3, and I do enjoy its high RPM characteristics, but I want to go in a different direction. AI's website has a VERY long page talking about the cams they offer, and how subjected to a tight QC inspection.
My question is this: Does anybody have experience with their cams? Do they perform well with they heads that they offer? Any feedback is much appreciated!
I have recently purchased some High compression 241 castings from AI, and I am also looking into their cams that they match for their heads. I currently run the MS3, and I do enjoy its high RPM characteristics, but I want to go in a different direction. AI's website has a VERY long page talking about the cams they offer, and how subjected to a tight QC inspection.
My question is this: Does anybody have experience with their cams? Do they perform well with they heads that they offer? Any feedback is much appreciated!
222 226 on a 111 lsa on a 111 intake centerline. That cam will have you grinning ear to ear with how responsive the motor is because your dcr is high and it matches the inherent limitations of a factory style manifold.
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From: Cincinnati
I was thinking something more along those lines too. Most of AI's grinds are on a much wider LSA.
Im interested in seeing what you go with. I plan on purchasing those heads and Ive never really wanted to go bigger than a 228/232 for tons of fun on the street. I have no experience with their cams but I would say that if their doing the heads they would know what cam would work the best. If you really like the idea of a 222/226 Id look into EPS whose off the shelf cam has made crazy power from what I have seen.
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Cincinnati
I'm still contemplating on keeping the MS3, but I feel a cam matched for the heads I bought will yield better results.
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AI cams are okay. I'd call Geoff Skinner @ EPS and get a 226/234 111+2 and tell AI to mill your heads to 64cc. Then run a .040" Cometic gasket with that setup for 11:1 Compression and nearly 8.7:1 DCR (which is ideal for 93). You'll have good quench, good dynamic compression, and good valve events for making a lot of avg power with a stock type manifold. It will also give you 8 degrees of overlap, which is about as much as you want for a truly street friendly cam, but enough overlap to make power.
The benefit of going with something like the EPS cam is the cam comes from Cam Motion, is cam doctored, and cut on aircraft grade billet aluminum cores. The EPS lobes are also relatively mild and very stable and make a lot of power.
I'd pair them with stock rockers, BTR Springs, and hardened pushrods along with some new Morel or Johnson drop in lifters.
Conversely, if you wanted a little more top end and slightly better street manners, you could ask for the EPS cam to be 226/234 113+2 and then ask AI to mill to 62cc. That would give you 11.3:1 CR, 8.7:1 DCR, 4 degrees of overlap, and a little later intake valve closing point to carry power a little higher, but still optimized for the stock intake.
You'd have more avg power out of the 111+2 combo, but they'd both be pretty close. And I would certainly do the Cometic .040" gaskets. Tight quench allows for a more complete burn and helps when you start running DCR numbers north of 8.5:1 on 93 to not detonate or pull timing.
The benefit of going with something like the EPS cam is the cam comes from Cam Motion, is cam doctored, and cut on aircraft grade billet aluminum cores. The EPS lobes are also relatively mild and very stable and make a lot of power.
I'd pair them with stock rockers, BTR Springs, and hardened pushrods along with some new Morel or Johnson drop in lifters.
Conversely, if you wanted a little more top end and slightly better street manners, you could ask for the EPS cam to be 226/234 113+2 and then ask AI to mill to 62cc. That would give you 11.3:1 CR, 8.7:1 DCR, 4 degrees of overlap, and a little later intake valve closing point to carry power a little higher, but still optimized for the stock intake.
You'd have more avg power out of the 111+2 combo, but they'd both be pretty close. And I would certainly do the Cometic .040" gaskets. Tight quench allows for a more complete burn and helps when you start running DCR numbers north of 8.5:1 on 93 to not detonate or pull timing.
Last edited by JakeFusion; Sep 6, 2014 at 04:48 PM.
11.5:1 is too much for that small of a cam. It's more important to match compression with the cam than airflow, at least on cathedral port LS1s. If you keep the IVC in the 42-45 degree range, keep DCR between 8.5:1-8.7:1, run a tight quench of .035" or so then your combo will work well. It may not make huge power, but it will run very well and beat cars with very late IVC and no compression.
The other thing to look at is valvetrain stability. Don't go crazy with cam lobes, or valve spring pressures, run everything as light as possible (rockers/valves/springs), and invest in very stout pushrods and good quality lifters, and enjoy the setup.
The other thing to look at is valvetrain stability. Don't go crazy with cam lobes, or valve spring pressures, run everything as light as possible (rockers/valves/springs), and invest in very stout pushrods and good quality lifters, and enjoy the setup.
About a year ago we started having all of our shelf camshafts(which are ground by Comp) cam doctored and a 2 cylinder cam doctor report is included with the camshaft.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.
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From: Cincinnati
I will also be using stock rockers with trunions, BTR springs, and LS7 lifters. I'm not sure which pushrods I will be getting, once I determine pushrod length then I will figure it out.
I've been using the stock "LS1" lifters with TSP pushrods and PRC springs for the past 4 years and they've been holding up, although I do have the typical sewing machine sound.
I've been using the stock "LS1" lifters with TSP pushrods and PRC springs for the past 4 years and they've been holding up, although I do have the typical sewing machine sound.
About a year ago we started having all of our shelf camshafts(which are ground by Comp) cam doctored and a 2 cylinder cam doctor report is included with the camshaft.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.
I've noticed you like the 3 degree split with LSL/XE lobes. Have you been seeing good results with that?
This gives a very strong torque curve off idle, low end and mid range RPM and with the XE exhaust lobe added seat to seat duration it carries the power well to 6500-6600rpm with the overlap events and IVC event the camshaft has.
I do the same with the HUC lobes and other longer seat to seat duration exhaust lobes as well. Have to look at the entire picture and not just the @.050" events as different lobes will do slightly different things given identical @.050" events.
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I'm not defending AI's cam spec's (not saying anything against them either), just pointing out that LSA doesn't always mean much.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati
About a year ago we started having all of our shelf camshafts(which are ground by Comp) cam doctored and a 2 cylinder cam doctor report is included with the camshaft.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.
We are also a dealer for Cam Motion and we have a 229/232 .615/.575 113+3 camshaft that is a mild camshaft compared to your MS3, and will have much more grunt under the curve as a result. It will also drive with much better manners than the MS3.
That camshaft would pair very well with your combination IMO.