Dropped sleeve issues............
Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
Im getting ready to tear the front of the motor apart and see whats going on
Launching!
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From: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
I wanna explain my situation and see what you guys think. Gonna try and keep it short and to the point, since I could write a book about my build-up problems.
I bought a 427 short-block(dry sleeve) from MTI. When I fired the motor it started using coolant real bad after about 45 minutes. Both sides were burning the coolant and the motor probally ran for ten minutes after I realized it was definitely a block issue. The 45 minutes it ran everything seemed fine the valve train was very quiet.
MTI replaced the block with a Darton MID wet sleeve block. I put everything back together and after about 3 days of trying to get it fired I find out that everyone of my exhaust valves are bent/hung open. When the heads were off the car the valves were all seated and looked fine. I also find that everyone of my brand new rockers (Yella Tera's) are all bent also just on the exhaust side. If you hold the shaft the rocker rides on and try and move the rocker it is very stiff or impossible to move, the intake side of the rockers are fine and all move freely like their supposed too.
After doing some research and a bunch of phone calls it seems the coolant hit the valves when they were hot and bent/warped all the valves. The pistons did NOT hit the valves, I checked the valves and the pistons and there is not one mark on them.
I am running GTP stg2 5.3 heads, 1.7 rockers, 7.400 pushrods, and comp r lifters. The pre load on the lifters was about .006 and like I said before when the original motor was running the valve train sounded and ran smoothly.
MTI has the heads now and are still trying to figure out what happened. I did not purchase the heads or rockers from MTI. I feel since this is a direct problem from their block that they should be responsible for replacing the parts that are ruined. I guess well see how they handle it.
Now for the questions. Anybody have any thoughts on this situation. Should MTI replace the parts? Anybody ever seen a problem like this? Any other possibilities on what bent the valves? I havent asked for any compensation for my labor to pull the motor in and out and now the heads are back off it again, should they compensate me for any of the labor? What should they be responsible for? Any input is much appreciated, thanks
I bought a 427 short-block(dry sleeve) from MTI. When I fired the motor it started using coolant real bad after about 45 minutes. Both sides were burning the coolant and the motor probally ran for ten minutes after I realized it was definitely a block issue. The 45 minutes it ran everything seemed fine the valve train was very quiet.
MTI replaced the block with a Darton MID wet sleeve block. I put everything back together and after about 3 days of trying to get it fired I find out that everyone of my exhaust valves are bent/hung open. When the heads were off the car the valves were all seated and looked fine. I also find that everyone of my brand new rockers (Yella Tera's) are all bent also just on the exhaust side. If you hold the shaft the rocker rides on and try and move the rocker it is very stiff or impossible to move, the intake side of the rockers are fine and all move freely like their supposed too.
After doing some research and a bunch of phone calls it seems the coolant hit the valves when they were hot and bent/warped all the valves. The pistons did NOT hit the valves, I checked the valves and the pistons and there is not one mark on them.
I am running GTP stg2 5.3 heads, 1.7 rockers, 7.400 pushrods, and comp r lifters. The pre load on the lifters was about .006 and like I said before when the original motor was running the valve train sounded and ran smoothly.
MTI has the heads now and are still trying to figure out what happened. I did not purchase the heads or rockers from MTI. I feel since this is a direct problem from their block that they should be responsible for replacing the parts that are ruined. I guess well see how they handle it.
Now for the questions. Anybody have any thoughts on this situation. Should MTI replace the parts? Anybody ever seen a problem like this? Any other possibilities on what bent the valves? I havent asked for any compensation for my labor to pull the motor in and out and now the heads are back off it again, should they compensate me for any of the labor? What should they be responsible for? Any input is much appreciated, thanks
I was under the impression that all MTI resleeve blocks now use the Darton MID and have been for some time now. I'm assuming the Darton blocks are far more reliable then an interference dry resleeve and are less prone to failure.
I know this doesn't have much to do with your bent valve problem but again I'm just curious since I want a 427.
Last edited by CamaroJoe; May 29, 2004 at 06:29 PM.
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From: St. Charles, MO
Originally Posted by CamaroJoe
Just curious, when did you buy this dry sleeve block?
I was under the impression that all MTI resleeve blocks now use the Darton MID and have been for some time now. I'm assuming the Darton blocks are far more reliable then an interference dry resleeve and are less prone to failure.
I know this doesn't have much to do with your bent valve problem but again I'm just curious since I want a 427.
I was under the impression that all MTI resleeve blocks now use the Darton MID and have been for some time now. I'm assuming the Darton blocks are far more reliable then an interference dry resleeve and are less prone to failure.
I know this doesn't have much to do with your bent valve problem but again I'm just curious since I want a 427.
I ordered it last June received it in September. The racing season is pretty much over in October around here so I decided to finish the rest of the chasis over the winter before I installed and fired the motor. From what I understand all they sell is the Darton blocks now.
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From: Garden City, Michigan
Before I get too into what I'm saying - sucks and hope you figure out what happened and get it fixed.
If I'm reading the rest of your info correctly - I don't think this is an accurate statement. The heads where ran - but the cam and pushrods were pulled for the sleeve fix and subsequently reinstalled. It certainly sounds like this is where the problem comes in.
You didn't get coolant in both heads, did you? It only sounded like one - which means 4 bent exhaust valves at worst - but if it was that much shock why not the intakes too?
Anyway - please let us know what you find out and good luck.
Dan
Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
You guys keep forgetting this complete valve train already ran and was fine.
You didn't get coolant in both heads, did you? It only sounded like one - which means 4 bent exhaust valves at worst - but if it was that much shock why not the intakes too?
Anyway - please let us know what you find out and good luck.
Dan
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How much are those GTP heads milled? Did you clay to measure PtoV?
I have seen 5.3L GTP heads with .055 off them. That would DEFINITELY affect PtoV with that size cam unless the valve reliefs were quite large.
Also I dont believe the coolant did anything. I have never seen bent valves AND rockers for a headgasket blowing or any other coolant related problem. Whenever that happens it is always from mechanical contact. You might have had a combination of things wrong. (weak springs, incorrect PtoV, bad rockers etc etc)
I would expect MTI to warranty the block and thats it.
Chris
I have seen 5.3L GTP heads with .055 off them. That would DEFINITELY affect PtoV with that size cam unless the valve reliefs were quite large.
Also I dont believe the coolant did anything. I have never seen bent valves AND rockers for a headgasket blowing or any other coolant related problem. Whenever that happens it is always from mechanical contact. You might have had a combination of things wrong. (weak springs, incorrect PtoV, bad rockers etc etc)
I would expect MTI to warranty the block and thats it.
Chris
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From: St. Charles, MO
Originally Posted by Chris ARE 360
How much are those GTP heads milled? Did you clay to measure PtoV?
I have seen 5.3L GTP heads with .055 off them. That would DEFINITELY affect PtoV with that size cam unless the valve reliefs were quite large.
Also I dont believe the coolant did anything. I have never seen bent valves AND rockers for a headgasket blowing or any other coolant related problem. Whenever that happens it is always from mechanical contact. You might have had a combination of things wrong. (weak springs, incorrect PtoV, bad rockers etc etc)
I would expect MTI to warranty the block and thats it.
Chris
I have seen 5.3L GTP heads with .055 off them. That would DEFINITELY affect PtoV with that size cam unless the valve reliefs were quite large.
Also I dont believe the coolant did anything. I have never seen bent valves AND rockers for a headgasket blowing or any other coolant related problem. Whenever that happens it is always from mechanical contact. You might have had a combination of things wrong. (weak springs, incorrect PtoV, bad rockers etc etc)
I would expect MTI to warranty the block and thats it.
Chris
Would you expect them to fix it if the problem was they put the cam in wrong? Which caused the valves to hit.
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Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
Would you expect them to fix it if the problem was they put the cam in wrong? Which caused the valves to hit.
This is David at MTI - we spoke yesterday prior to you speaking to Jayson There's no question that if we made an error, we'll make it right. We're not perfect and sometimes things do happen but as an organization, we're committed to doing the right thing and standing behind our work.
I just PM'd you my cell phone number and mine/Jayson's personal e-mail addresses. Please give me a call or send me/Jayson an e-mail and let's discuss the latest developments and what we need to do moving forward to ensure your complete satisfaction.
David
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From: St. Charles, MO
Well the crank sprocket is off about 3 teeth. When the dots on the timing chain are lined up the number1 piston is down in the cylinder 1.700. I am having a hard time understanding how this happened, but it did.
I talked to David@MTI today and it seems that they(MTI) are going to take care of the mistake. I will update as I get more info
I talked to David@MTI today and it seems that they(MTI) are going to take care of the mistake. I will update as I get more info
Last edited by DOC OTIS; May 30, 2004 at 04:27 PM.
Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
Well the crank sprocket is off about 3 teeth. When the dots on the timing chain are lined up the number1 piston is down in the cylinder about an inch or so. I am having a hard time understanding how this happened, but it did.
I talked to David@MTI today and it seems that they(MTI) are going to take care of the mistake. I will update as I get more info
I talked to David@MTI today and it seems that they(MTI) are going to take care of the mistake. I will update as I get more info
This is how shops should take care of their customers.
They got paid to degree this cam. its obvious they did not do it. So what else is not done properly. Lets just wait and see how they take of this, in my opinion it should have NEVER happened!!
Originally Posted by 9secbird
They got paid to degree this cam. its obvious they did not do it. So what else is not done properly. Lets just wait and see how they take of this, in my opinion it should have NEVER happened!!
I'd be infuriated.
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From: St. Charles, MO
Originally Posted by CANNIBAL
Can't argue with you there. Something like that should NEVER be overlooked and should be done if it was included in fee of services.
I'd be infuriated.
I'd be infuriated.
Originally Posted by DOC OTIS
Im glad you see it our way. I paid to have the cam degreed locally on the first motor. When it shot craps part of them rectifying that problem was to degree the cam in the new motor, which wasnt done or it would of been noticed right away there was a problem. I will be interested to see how timely they handle this and if they agree to the compensation I feel do to me.
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From: St. Charles, MO
Originally Posted by CANNIBAL
I can't imagine how you must feel right now. I hope it all works out in the end. I have no doubt it'll come out just fine even though it's long over-due. Please keep us updated.
I'll give you an idea
