I wanna explain my situation and see what you guys think. Gonna try and keep it short and to the point, since I could write a book about my build-up problems.

I bought a 427 short-block(dry sleeve) from MTI. When I fired the motor it started using coolant real bad after about 45 minutes. Both sides were burning the coolant and the motor probally ran for ten minutes after I realized it was definitely a block issue. The 45 minutes it ran everything seemed fine the valve train was very quiet.

MTI replaced the block with a Darton MID wet sleeve block. I put everything back together and after about 3 days of trying to get it fired I find out that everyone of my exhaust valves are bent/hung open. When the heads were off the car the valves were all seated and looked fine. I also find that everyone of my brand new rockers (Yella Tera's) are all bent also just on the exhaust side. If you hold the shaft the rocker rides on and try and move the rocker it is very stiff or impossible to move, the intake side of the rockers are fine and all move freely like their supposed too.

After doing some research and a bunch of phone calls it seems the coolant hit the valves when they were hot and bent/warped all the valves. The pistons did NOT hit the valves, I checked the valves and the pistons and there is not one mark on them.

I am running GTP stg2 5.3 heads, 1.7 rockers, 7.400 pushrods, and comp r lifters. The pre load on the lifters was about .006 and like I said before when the original motor was running the valve train sounded and ran smoothly.

MTI has the heads now and are still trying to figure out what happened. I did not purchase the heads or rockers from MTI. I feel since this is a direct problem from their block that they should be responsible for replacing the parts that are ruined. I guess well see how they handle it.

Now for the questions. Anybody have any thoughts on this situation. Should MTI replace the parts? Anybody ever seen a problem like this? Any other possibilities on what bent the valves? I havent asked for any compensation for my labor to pull the motor in and out and now the heads are back off it again, should they compensate me for any of the labor? What should they be responsible for? Any input is much appreciated, thanks

 

They would be responsible if they installed it. As far as I know, thats the only way their warranty is valid. I think it was good that they fixed the short block for you.

 

You gotta be kidding What does them installing it in the car have anything to do with dropping a sleeve. If that were the case I would reccomend that no one buy a MTI built motor unless they were installing it. I spent 8k on a shortblock that made it 45 minutes and wound up scrapping my valves and rockers, and you seem to think their not responsible unless they installed it? whatever

 

By the mere fact that MTI was willing to repair the block, they acknowledged that they knew they were responsible. Make them replace your rockers and valves!

 

They havent said that their not gonna replace the parts, they are still trying to figure out what happened. There is no doubt in my mind they should replace it, so ill just wait and see.

 

i think Implalla66 is way off base. he might have misunderstood you. if MTI's motor droped a sleave (like say 7 out of 8 of them in an independent study in your neck of the woods ) then MTI will fix the problem - a problem in their design and product. it is just plain good of them to inpect the heads and valvetrane, but in my opinion, they should try to figure out what happened. i really hope you get your combo together, i have been following it (through my KC bros).

personally i doubt they would compensate you for your labor time/costs. they should give you the product you purchased in good working order fit for the particular purpose you both intended (now dont i sound like a lawyer). lol. you pay more for their name and experience. when things like this happen, it needs to be resolved. for all the trouble you have had, i would think a short block built CORRECTLY, free shipping, and probably some kind of MTI store credit.

again, i wish you the best bro. i knwo if you have the tosto boys there, the install was done right.

 

I think that asking for labor is too much. That is part of hotroding and **** happens. Big bore motors are known to have problems. It is good to see that they covered you on the block. Covering the parts could go either way. I don't see how the valves and rockers could be bent off of a coolant problem. Sounds like pistons hitting the valves. Do you have valve reliefs? What cam is in it? Did you degree the cam? What head gaskets and coolant are you running? Preload sounds fine.

 

I'm not way off base, I'm telling you my understanding of their warrenty. Did you read it before you bought the short block?

 

I haven't asked them to cover any of the labor, just wanted to throw it out there and see what others thought. The Tosto boys have helped me alot (much appreciated) and yes everything on my end was done correctly.

strokedls1 - The valves did not hit the pistons, Im sure of it. If 200 degree coolant hits a 1300 degree valve what's gonna happen? Its gonna make that valve look like a pretzel, that is the only thing it could be. Piston to Valve clearence was .200, it is .244 .244/.612 .612 cam on a 112 lsa and was put in straight up by MTI (they assembled the complete short-block). The head gaskets are .054 Cometic's also supplied by them and was using Dex Cool when I had the problems, since I have upgraded to the Evan's coolant

 

Before I bought the block I asked what would happen if I had block problems, they said it would be taken care of. I would think the majority of people buying stroker motor's would be doing their own installs. Not gonna tow my car 1200 miles to pay out the nose for an install that I am capable of doing myself. I'm not asking for a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty, just a block that will make it past break-in. Who would spend the money on one of these motors if the vendor said "here you go good luck with it, your on your own"?

If you were in my position and spent the $$ and time I have on this project you would expect the same.

 

I understand your position, and I think they should fix their parts and help you out with the heads. Its the right thing to do.

I dont know if they should pay 100%, but you should try and get what you can.

 

Good luck finding any manufacturer or vendor that will cover damages to other components, even if their product has been proven to cause the damage. This is how the performance automotive industry works, like it or not. Most of the warrantys out there are very generic, almost copy/paste of eachother, and 99% of them do not cover related damages.

If your valvespring broke and the valve dropped and put a hole in your piston, would you think the valvespring company would pay for your engine? Nope.

If your timing chain busted, and ruined all your valves and pistons, would the timing chain company pay for your engine? Nope.

They are only responsible for replacing or crediting the part(s) that failed in most cases. Several manufacturers won't even offer a warranty on race-designed parts or parts to be used in performance applications.

Labor charges are typically never recoverable. The only time I've seen labor covered is if a particular shop did the installation of a component, and the installation was found to be faulty afterwards. Lets say MTI installed the engine, and something was very wrong with the installation, they might opt to pay a shop up in MO to fix it, if it is cheaper than sending the car back. Thats about the only time I've ever seen labor recovered.

This is an expensive hobby, and you have to take many risks on your own. I'd never recommend anyone going into their own engines and doing major upgrades unless they can accept that risk if something happens.

 

Oh yeah, and to answer your question about coolant making the valves/rockers warp, I've never heard of anything like that ever happening before. If that were the case, anytime someone had a head gasket leak, they would have to replace the valves. We all know head gaskets have been blowing for decades. I've had two sleeved blocks fail, and seen several others fail/drop, and nobody has had this problem before.

If something physically bent the valves/rocker arms, I'd have to say there was mechanical contact. I'd also find that highly unlikely since you only have the exhaust valves/rockers damaged, typically it is the larger diameter intake valves which contact the pistons, not the exhaust valves. Besides, if you did drop a sleeve, and you claim the coolant warped the valves, then you would have had to drop all 8 sleeves if all 8 exhaust valves got bent. Since all of them were bent, I'd highly suspect clearance issues. If you had a sleeve or two drop, only the cylinders adjacent to the dropped sleeve should have suffered any damage based on your idea.

Could the heads have lower seats in the exhaust valve bowls? maybe they are positioned lower than normal in the heads?

 

So I guess the dropped sleeves are his fault.

In all fairness to MTI Doc, you should at least have given them the chance to finish the work and see what they would do about your heads and then post up the results.

I am assuming because they have the heads they are willing to work something out?

 

Ain't that da truth... CompCams

If there was no piston to valve contact... How did the rockers get damaged?

I agree with Eric & Tony about the aftermarket warranty part. You have to be real about it. Good to hear that MTI is working with you, let's hope for the best, but you can't expect companies to pick up the tab for everything. I didn't even try to get CompCams to replace the motor for what looks to be a faulty cam timing gear in my 94Z. I knew there was no point. Bye bye nice heads/cam motor. Hello $250 4.3L Caprice junkyard motor.

 

I agree with Tony.

It sucks but it's the nature of the beast

 

I'm not bashing MTI just wanted to know what others would expect in my position.

 

Hey Doc,

I still can't imagine an exhaust valve warping from contact with the coolant. A 1300 degree exhaust valve getting quenched in a 200+ degree coolant/water mix isn't going to warp the valves. It just isn't possible within what metallurgy I know.

In one way or another you have had piston to valve contact. You may not have found it yet, but it must have happened. There is no way to take out your exhaust valves and exhaust rockers with a coolant bath. Out of all of the things I can think of occurring when a sleeve drops, this just isn't one of them.

I've dealt with a couple of dropped sleeve MTI engines, and neither had this issue. One engine had two cylinders repeatedly filled with coolant as we tested per MTI's requests. I know two cylinders were filled with coolant at least 3 times before the engine was shipped back to MTI. Sitting on top of this mess was a really nice set of Stage III LS6 heads and they were never damaged in the process. They are currently sitting on the new engine and pumping out a detuned 750hp.

Denzil

 

That's weird you have bent exhaust valves, are they lower?

I have known of your problems for a while, I hope you are on the road soon.

Really one of Tony's posts nailed it, at the most it's just a matter of trying to get some goodwill from some of the companies involved in your longblock. Did you pressure test the heads or have them checked for leaks?

 

Could you spray that machinist paint on the pistons (the paint that finds imperfections/cracks) to see if there are any witness marks?