Cam material question
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On The Tree
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Cam material question Is there any cam vendors anyone would advise to look out for? ANd does anyone know who has the better quality cam cores used? Or all they all the same? Need to get another cam ground for my little 5.3 project
8620 steel with special hardening process. After it's cut they polish the lobes and put the cam on a Cam Dr. measuring device and give you a print-out of exactly what your cam measures.
Cams to stay away from ? Speedmaster. Made by dirt poor Chinese people who will eat the next rat they see.
Cams to stay away from ? Speedmaster. Made by dirt poor Chinese people who will eat the next rat they see.
Comp does VOLUME and part of volume is often trying to cut a corner here and there. People using Comp are often more dollar conscience than those calling Cam Motion too.
When you do volume even at the same percentage of failure people will hear more, and when you cater to a cheaper crowd you likely have to cut a few corners now and again. Comp is NOT bad by any means, but you spend a little more with other companies you can actually get a better product.
The other thing to consider without opening that thread is there are probably no more than 2-3 cam core makers with a bunch of vendors grinding them afterwords.
When you do volume even at the same percentage of failure people will hear more, and when you cater to a cheaper crowd you likely have to cut a few corners now and again. Comp is NOT bad by any means, but you spend a little more with other companies you can actually get a better product.
The other thing to consider without opening that thread is there are probably no more than 2-3 cam core makers with a bunch of vendors grinding them afterwords.
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Old owner with a sbf 347 stroker and c4 said it weighed like 3100# but idk he was kind of an air head lol its an 84 mustang, 6 point cage and sub frame connectors. Have an L33 block prepped and ready for bottom end but waiting on word to trade for a lq4 block. Sooooo idk ill have to weigh it after everything is done and running
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For what it's worth, here is a metallurgists perspective:
5150- Chrome Steel with 0.50% carbon content. For many years, this was called "spring steel", because it was used the prefered grade for springs. It has very high strength and very good memory (meaning it returns to its original shape quite well). It has good surface hardness, which is good for scratch resistance. It tends to be low in toughness, which means it can break under repeated or heavy impact loads. As long as you don't plan to hammer on your camshaft, it's probably fine.
8660 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.60% carbon addition. This is both harder and stronger than 5150 due to the higher carbon content and the molybdenum addition and will be very scratch resistant. The addition of nickel and moly both help with toughness, meaning it can take more of a beating before breaking, but it would. I use this material for tensile testing grips up to 600,000 pounds of tensile force 30-40 times per day, and the last set lasted four years.
8620 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.20% carbon addition. This will be softer than 8660 due to the reduction in carbon, but it will have much better toughness, meaning it can take a hell of a hit without breaking. Since it is being used in a high wear environment, they are probably case hardening it by carburizing the steel, which means that the outer 0.050" or so will have a high carbon content and be very wear resistant, but the core would have the lower carbon content, retaining the toughness.
For a daily driver, street warrior, there is probably nothing wrong with using 5150. it's good steel, and it's well made. For a car that will see some track time, i'd run either of the 8600 series metals to be safe. For a car that will be mostly track, i'd go straight to hardened 8620. In fact, I'd go a step further and see if they could carbo-nitride the cam instead of just carburizing it. Make a REALLY hard, wear-resistant lobe that would probably outlast the rest of the motor.
Is there a certain horsepower mark? I don't see it that way. More about punishment than power. How you abuse the engine is a bigger factor than it's ability to put out power.
5150- Chrome Steel with 0.50% carbon content. For many years, this was called "spring steel", because it was used the prefered grade for springs. It has very high strength and very good memory (meaning it returns to its original shape quite well). It has good surface hardness, which is good for scratch resistance. It tends to be low in toughness, which means it can break under repeated or heavy impact loads. As long as you don't plan to hammer on your camshaft, it's probably fine.
8660 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.60% carbon addition. This is both harder and stronger than 5150 due to the higher carbon content and the molybdenum addition and will be very scratch resistant. The addition of nickel and moly both help with toughness, meaning it can take more of a beating before breaking, but it would. I use this material for tensile testing grips up to 600,000 pounds of tensile force 30-40 times per day, and the last set lasted four years.
8620 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.20% carbon addition. This will be softer than 8660 due to the reduction in carbon, but it will have much better toughness, meaning it can take a hell of a hit without breaking. Since it is being used in a high wear environment, they are probably case hardening it by carburizing the steel, which means that the outer 0.050" or so will have a high carbon content and be very wear resistant, but the core would have the lower carbon content, retaining the toughness.
For a daily driver, street warrior, there is probably nothing wrong with using 5150. it's good steel, and it's well made. For a car that will see some track time, i'd run either of the 8600 series metals to be safe. For a car that will be mostly track, i'd go straight to hardened 8620. In fact, I'd go a step further and see if they could carbo-nitride the cam instead of just carburizing it. Make a REALLY hard, wear-resistant lobe that would probably outlast the rest of the motor.
Is there a certain horsepower mark? I don't see it that way. More about punishment than power. How you abuse the engine is a bigger factor than it's ability to put out power.
The last big brand cam I had in my possession which had failed was sent to be passed along to a 3rd party for inspection and analysis. I don't know if he would want to open the can of worms by posting but what was found was enough I won't touch another of them.
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For what it's worth, here is a metallurgists perspective:
5150- Chrome Steel with 0.50% carbon content. For many years, this was called "spring steel", because it was used the prefered grade for springs. It has very high strength and very good memory (meaning it returns to its original shape quite well). It has good surface hardness, which is good for scratch resistance. It tends to be low in toughness, which means it can break under repeated or heavy impact loads. As long as you don't plan to hammer on your camshaft, it's probably fine.
8660 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.60% carbon addition. This is both harder and stronger than 5150 due to the higher carbon content and the molybdenum addition and will be very scratch resistant. The addition of nickel and moly both help with toughness, meaning it can take more of a beating before breaking, but it would. I use this material for tensile testing grips up to 600,000 pounds of tensile force 30-40 times per day, and the last set lasted four years.
8620 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.20% carbon addition. This will be softer than 8660 due to the reduction in carbon, but it will have much better toughness, meaning it can take a hell of a hit without breaking. Since it is being used in a high wear environment, they are probably case hardening it by carburizing the steel, which means that the outer 0.050" or so will have a high carbon content and be very wear resistant, but the core would have the lower carbon content, retaining the toughness.
For a daily driver, street warrior, there is probably nothing wrong with using 5150. it's good steel, and it's well made. For a car that will see some track time, i'd run either of the 8600 series metals to be safe. For a car that will be mostly track, i'd go straight to hardened 8620. In fact, I'd go a step further and see if they could carbo-nitride the cam instead of just carburizing it. Make a REALLY hard, wear-resistant lobe that would probably outlast the rest of the motor.
Is there a certain horsepower mark? I don't see it that way. More about punishment than power. How you abuse the engine is a bigger factor than it's ability to put out power.
5150- Chrome Steel with 0.50% carbon content. For many years, this was called "spring steel", because it was used the prefered grade for springs. It has very high strength and very good memory (meaning it returns to its original shape quite well). It has good surface hardness, which is good for scratch resistance. It tends to be low in toughness, which means it can break under repeated or heavy impact loads. As long as you don't plan to hammer on your camshaft, it's probably fine.
8660 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.60% carbon addition. This is both harder and stronger than 5150 due to the higher carbon content and the molybdenum addition and will be very scratch resistant. The addition of nickel and moly both help with toughness, meaning it can take more of a beating before breaking, but it would. I use this material for tensile testing grips up to 600,000 pounds of tensile force 30-40 times per day, and the last set lasted four years.
8620 - Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel with 0.20% carbon addition. This will be softer than 8660 due to the reduction in carbon, but it will have much better toughness, meaning it can take a hell of a hit without breaking. Since it is being used in a high wear environment, they are probably case hardening it by carburizing the steel, which means that the outer 0.050" or so will have a high carbon content and be very wear resistant, but the core would have the lower carbon content, retaining the toughness.
For a daily driver, street warrior, there is probably nothing wrong with using 5150. it's good steel, and it's well made. For a car that will see some track time, i'd run either of the 8600 series metals to be safe. For a car that will be mostly track, i'd go straight to hardened 8620. In fact, I'd go a step further and see if they could carbo-nitride the cam instead of just carburizing it. Make a REALLY hard, wear-resistant lobe that would probably outlast the rest of the motor.
Is there a certain horsepower mark? I don't see it that way. More about punishment than power. How you abuse the engine is a bigger factor than it's ability to put out power.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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Care to elaborate? pm me? I wont go blabble mouthing anything im just curious
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 138
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