JPR 427 Coming Apart....Literally
Bear I have the pics. Unfortunatly my camera no workee so I used my buddies camera phone. I will e-mail them to you tomorrow. I am exchanging the camera at circuit city tomorrow so if the pics are crappy I can swing back to Eastside and retake them. The piston problem you can see clearly, the sleeve damage is a little harder to tell but if you move your finger over it you can tell.
My car did OK I richened it up and ended up with 419.4HP and 370TQ. I am startng to wonder if heads are worth it. I am going to start a post about it.
My car did OK I richened it up and ended up with 419.4HP and 370TQ. I am startng to wonder if heads are worth it. I am going to start a post about it.
I know I didint tell ANYONE about what oil pump to run or clearance?
I dont think Tommy knows what your talking about either but I cant speak for him?
And as for who built these motors---->YOUR NAME WAS ON THEM.
U WERE RESPONSIBLE,DONT BLAME OTHERS FOR YOUR MISTAKES.
I dont think Tommy knows what your talking about either but I cant speak for him?
And as for who built these motors---->YOUR NAME WAS ON THEM.
U WERE RESPONSIBLE,DONT BLAME OTHERS FOR YOUR MISTAKES.
Launching!
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For info only Sorry to hear about your problems Bear,
Have had some coolant issues with my 427 ( Motors rock solid ) But we have had the heads off a couple of times, what we found was the recommended Felpro gaskets are rubbish they fail around the sealing ring and water jacket.This is nothing to do with the coolant I use the Evans system and it works fine. We are using the cometic this time as recommended by Steve and you can tell the difference we were never happy when we got the Felpro but they were the recommended gasket for this setup.
Have had some coolant issues with my 427 ( Motors rock solid ) But we have had the heads off a couple of times, what we found was the recommended Felpro gaskets are rubbish they fail around the sealing ring and water jacket.This is nothing to do with the coolant I use the Evans system and it works fine. We are using the cometic this time as recommended by Steve and you can tell the difference we were never happy when we got the Felpro but they were the recommended gasket for this setup.
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GTB thanks for theupdate. Cant understand Y Felpros were reco if they werent up to the task. Seems like this is Dartons problem.
Joe as far as the $1000 after you see the pics, That was/is more for your machinist than me. You said that if there was a problem with the honing, that you would go after him. THAT DOES NOT CONCERN ME. What DOES CONCERN ME is the 2 pistons that are damaged and even worse, the cylinder wall that is ruined. Any way u slice it, 510 miles does not equal the damage that was done. Joe please send the ARP main studs to me asap, and I am waiting the Billet Main Caps from Thunder racing that you are going to order this week. Sorry it came to this. 2 years ago u seemed to have your **** together, then something happened( MY guess is the loss of funds from the EWP fiasco) and you started delaying projects and messing with people and thier cars. Too Bad, I think that U coulda stuck it out.
Joe as far as the $1000 after you see the pics, That was/is more for your machinist than me. You said that if there was a problem with the honing, that you would go after him. THAT DOES NOT CONCERN ME. What DOES CONCERN ME is the 2 pistons that are damaged and even worse, the cylinder wall that is ruined. Any way u slice it, 510 miles does not equal the damage that was done. Joe please send the ARP main studs to me asap, and I am waiting the Billet Main Caps from Thunder racing that you are going to order this week. Sorry it came to this. 2 years ago u seemed to have your **** together, then something happened( MY guess is the loss of funds from the EWP fiasco) and you started delaying projects and messing with people and thier cars. Too Bad, I think that U coulda stuck it out.
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From: SC
Originally Posted by Mike K.
Guys maybe we should all get together and talk about legal action, I know I have proof regarding my heads, Im sure you guys have proof regarding your motors, PM me if you are interested.
Im in, sending you a pm.
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Jim I never got the pics. I have a "theory" 
as to Y the cylinder walls may be damaged. I will do some research and see if I can confirm the unknown. The block is going out to Steve on Wed or Thurs. I hope to get this crap figured out. Im coming for the bad people 
as to Y the cylinder walls may be damaged. I will do some research and see if I can confirm the unknown. The block is going out to Steve on Wed or Thurs. I hope to get this crap figured out. Im coming for the bad people LS1 Tech Stories
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Gaskets The main reason Darton recommended the Fel Pro 1041 gasket is because they were the only ones available for big bore use last year - besides copper. Fel Pro said they would work normally aspirated and blown with less than ten pounds of boost. Experience has shown otherwise.
Julio at Cartek told me last year that he had been using the standard big bore Cometics on the MID blocks with no problems. Others had leaking problems however, probably due to poor installation on their part. In any case, I got after Darton, actually got them hooked up with Cometic at PRI last December, to make an MID specific gasket for the sleeved blocks.
The MID specific Cometics were not available until late February, early March of this year.
I normally machine just .003" off the decks of these blocks to square them up. I find however that most all used blocks are .005" short in deck height at the front. This may have something to do with the way they are mounted in the car?
Some blocks I receive for MID installation are short of the 9.240" stock deck height to begin with - may have been decked previously. Also, I believe some of the "blem" blocks are blems for this reason. I had one brand new blem I machined .003" off of only to have the pistons out of the hole .018" - I measured the block and found it was short. I called Cometic and they made me a .052" four layer gasket which took care of that problem. I otherwise would have had to set up and machine the pistons. These thicker gaskets should now be available to anyone having the same problem.
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Julio at Cartek told me last year that he had been using the standard big bore Cometics on the MID blocks with no problems. Others had leaking problems however, probably due to poor installation on their part. In any case, I got after Darton, actually got them hooked up with Cometic at PRI last December, to make an MID specific gasket for the sleeved blocks.
The MID specific Cometics were not available until late February, early March of this year.
I normally machine just .003" off the decks of these blocks to square them up. I find however that most all used blocks are .005" short in deck height at the front. This may have something to do with the way they are mounted in the car?
Some blocks I receive for MID installation are short of the 9.240" stock deck height to begin with - may have been decked previously. Also, I believe some of the "blem" blocks are blems for this reason. I had one brand new blem I machined .003" off of only to have the pistons out of the hole .018" - I measured the block and found it was short. I called Cometic and they made me a .052" four layer gasket which took care of that problem. I otherwise would have had to set up and machine the pistons. These thicker gaskets should now be available to anyone having the same problem.
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Originally Posted by JS
And this is why u should have a quality engine builder putting your motor together.
Steve covers all the bases,very impressive Steve.
Steve covers all the bases,very impressive Steve.
Darton MID bore size
Originally Posted by angst911
steve, what's the max bore on the darton sleeves again?
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From: CT
Head gaskets aside the main damage to Bear engine was from aluinuim in the pump and pan which came from the #8 piston hitting the reluctor wheel
Diamond clearanced the piston as they always do but it is never enough it always needs final fit and finshing . I have never had a 4 inch stroke piston that didnt need a couple of hours of finish work
Diamond clearanced the piston as they always do but it is never enough it always needs final fit and finshing . I have never had a 4 inch stroke piston that didnt need a couple of hours of finish work
Thats why u need a good engine builder,This was obviously overlooked and was the reason Bears motor is trash.Bear its time to call a lawyer,U have no warranty which u were supoosed to have and a motor that was built incorrectly.
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JS, JPR gets ONE ****** CHANCE at this. I will settle this WHOLE CRAP, for a GRAND, like we talked about. Him with the whole I need pics and I wanna talk to the machine shop is BS. I really dont care whos fault it is. If JPR wasnt capable of building the motor, he should have said no to me. Since he took my money and parts, I want him to now take responsibilty. In all fairness to him, he didnt argue with me over the money, he just said he didnt have it now, and it would take a month or so to get it to me. I agreed and siad fine. 200-250 a week for 4-5 weeks is fine with me. I have to lay out the money for the block and pistons myself though. I left a message on his cell I need his email so I can send pics.
Thats sounds like a a fair deal Bear.You've been threw alot.I hope it all works out pal.Looks like Jay might have to take another coarse of action to get his $$ along with others that are owed money.
There is no way I'd let some get away with taking my money
One way or another I'd get what was owed to me.
There is no way I'd let some get away with taking my money
One way or another I'd get what was owed to me.
Last edited by JS; Jun 9, 2004 at 05:03 PM.