Help choosing a Cam
04-23-2015, 09:48 PM
#1
Help choosing a Cam Ive solicited help from 3 different sponsors here for my build. Im ready to purchase a cam but cant make up my mind.
I have a 99 trans am 5.7 ls1 with 24,500 miles. I have recently installed an LS6 intake and LID. This will mostly be a weekend car. Maybe some auto cross, road course, or occasional trip to the drags. My plans include stall, guessing around 3500 with a 3.73 gear, ud pulley, LT headers, heads and cam. Will be changing oil pump, timing chain, I'm using morel 5315 lifters. I have purchased a set of AI 226 heads that have been milled to 58cc with .660 springs. I have concerns with flycutting so i requested cams that would work without doing that. Its not a drag car. Would like it to be over 400 rwt. Looking for "under the curve". What would you suggest? Are my goals unrealistic? Also, 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers?
Cams:
BTR NA stage 3: 231/242 .617/.592 112+2
Tick street heat ls2 stage 1: 229/232 .615/.575 113+3
AI: 228/234- 114 .605
I have a 99 trans am 5.7 ls1 with 24,500 miles. I have recently installed an LS6 intake and LID. This will mostly be a weekend car. Maybe some auto cross, road course, or occasional trip to the drags. My plans include stall, guessing around 3500 with a 3.73 gear, ud pulley, LT headers, heads and cam. Will be changing oil pump, timing chain, I'm using morel 5315 lifters. I have purchased a set of AI 226 heads that have been milled to 58cc with .660 springs. I have concerns with flycutting so i requested cams that would work without doing that. Its not a drag car. Would like it to be over 400 rwt. Looking for "under the curve". What would you suggest? Are my goals unrealistic? Also, 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers?
Cams:
BTR NA stage 3: 231/242 .617/.592 112+2
Tick street heat ls2 stage 1: 229/232 .615/.575 113+3
AI: 228/234- 114 .605
04-24-2015, 01:31 AM
#2
24,500 miles ? That sounds nice !
Morel 5315 are the kind of lifters I want to use too. I've read they like a preload of .045 to .055 so I'm going to shoot for .050 with mine. If I allow .020 for metal expansion then even if they pump up I could clear my piston if I have .070 piston to valve clearance.
Read this thread and download the piston to valve calculator. You'll need Excell to run it. Next, you need some way to measure your valve drop.
58cc ? It sounds like the heads have been milled a lot. I'm guessing the BTR will give the least clearance and the AI will give the most. I don't see the amount of advance ground into the A.I. cam; that matters a lot.
Headers ? Here's a quote from Tony Mamo (Mamo) 1.875 tube is the way to go.....it would have added about 6-8 peak ponies to the end results but would have cost 15 or so ft/lbs in the 3500-4000 RPM band....that's the trade off of the larger tube primary pipe.
Which cam ? I've been pestering people here for over a year with the same question and I'm still undecided. I think the way to go is to figure out how much overlap your willing to live with and to choose a intake valve close point. Go to this page and put in the cam spec your thinking about. It will give you the valve events for that cam. Adding the intake open and exhaust close will give you the cam's overlap. Generally speaking, more overlap means less piston to valve clearance. Overlap makes power when the engine comes "into tune". I like what Jake Fusion said about overlap. 0 to 4 degrees drives like stock. 4 to 8 is street-able with a good tune. Over 8 and the sacrifices grow. Martin Smallwood said, "(Martin) 2.5 degrees of valve overlap @.050" lobe lift will still cause some power loss off idle up to roughly 1800-2000rpm in a 346" engine." More compression can make a big overlap cam more "low rpm" friendly and your definitely going to have some compression.
You also need to match your cam to your stall. I'm m6 so I can't help you there. I go through a "cam of the week" thang and each week my choice gets smaller. I tell myself, "The thrill of a high dyno number will quickly fade when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic". This week, my "cam of the week" is a 225/229 113+1
Morel 5315 are the kind of lifters I want to use too. I've read they like a preload of .045 to .055 so I'm going to shoot for .050 with mine. If I allow .020 for metal expansion then even if they pump up I could clear my piston if I have .070 piston to valve clearance.
Read this thread and download the piston to valve calculator. You'll need Excell to run it. Next, you need some way to measure your valve drop.
58cc ? It sounds like the heads have been milled a lot. I'm guessing the BTR will give the least clearance and the AI will give the most. I don't see the amount of advance ground into the A.I. cam; that matters a lot.
Headers ? Here's a quote from Tony Mamo (Mamo) 1.875 tube is the way to go.....it would have added about 6-8 peak ponies to the end results but would have cost 15 or so ft/lbs in the 3500-4000 RPM band....that's the trade off of the larger tube primary pipe.
Which cam ? I've been pestering people here for over a year with the same question and I'm still undecided. I think the way to go is to figure out how much overlap your willing to live with and to choose a intake valve close point. Go to this page and put in the cam spec your thinking about. It will give you the valve events for that cam. Adding the intake open and exhaust close will give you the cam's overlap. Generally speaking, more overlap means less piston to valve clearance. Overlap makes power when the engine comes "into tune". I like what Jake Fusion said about overlap. 0 to 4 degrees drives like stock. 4 to 8 is street-able with a good tune. Over 8 and the sacrifices grow. Martin Smallwood said, "(Martin) 2.5 degrees of valve overlap @.050" lobe lift will still cause some power loss off idle up to roughly 1800-2000rpm in a 346" engine." More compression can make a big overlap cam more "low rpm" friendly and your definitely going to have some compression.
You also need to match your cam to your stall. I'm m6 so I can't help you there. I go through a "cam of the week" thang and each week my choice gets smaller. I tell myself, "The thrill of a high dyno number will quickly fade when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic". This week, my "cam of the week" is a 225/229 113+1
04-25-2015, 07:06 PM
#3
Thanks for the reply. I think for my driving, I could use the extra 15 down in the lower rpm's, I'm leaning toward 1 3/4 for headers. The cam is where I'm stuck. Leaning towards the Tick Street Heat. Just wondering what others might suggest.
04-25-2015, 07:25 PM
#5
24,500 miles ? That sounds nice !
Morel 5315 are the kind of lifters I want to use too. I've read they like a preload of .045 to .055 so I'm going to shoot for .050 with mine. If I allow .020 for metal expansion then even if they pump up I could clear my piston if I have .070 piston to valve clearance.
Read this thread and download the piston to valve calculator. You'll need Excell to run it. Next, you need some way to measure your valve drop.
58cc ? It sounds like the heads have been milled a lot. I'm guessing the BTR will give the least clearance and the AI will give the most. I don't see the amount of advance ground into the A.I. cam; that matters a lot.
Headers ? Here's a quote from Tony Mamo (Mamo) 1.875 tube is the way to go.....it would have added about 6-8 peak ponies to the end results but would have cost 15 or so ft/lbs in the 3500-4000 RPM band....that's the trade off of the larger tube primary pipe.
Which cam ? I've been pestering people here for over a year with the same question and I'm still undecided. I think the way to go is to figure out how much overlap your willing to live with and to choose a intake valve close point. Go to this page and put in the cam spec your thinking about. It will give you the valve events for that cam. Adding the intake open and exhaust close will give you the cam's overlap. Generally speaking, more overlap means less piston to valve clearance. Overlap makes power when the engine comes "into tune". I like what Jake Fusion said about overlap. 0 to 4 degrees drives like stock. 4 to 8 is street-able with a good tune. Over 8 and the sacrifices grow. Martin Smallwood said, "(Martin) 2.5 degrees of valve overlap @.050" lobe lift will still cause some power loss off idle up to roughly 1800-2000rpm in a 346" engine." More compression can make a big overlap cam more "low rpm" friendly and your definitely going to have some compression.
You also need to match your cam to your stall. I'm m6 so I can't help you there. I go through a "cam of the week" thang and each week my choice gets smaller. I tell myself, "The thrill of a high dyno number will quickly fade when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic". This week, my "cam of the week" is a 225/229 113+1
Morel 5315 are the kind of lifters I want to use too. I've read they like a preload of .045 to .055 so I'm going to shoot for .050 with mine. If I allow .020 for metal expansion then even if they pump up I could clear my piston if I have .070 piston to valve clearance.
Read this thread and download the piston to valve calculator. You'll need Excell to run it. Next, you need some way to measure your valve drop.
58cc ? It sounds like the heads have been milled a lot. I'm guessing the BTR will give the least clearance and the AI will give the most. I don't see the amount of advance ground into the A.I. cam; that matters a lot.
Headers ? Here's a quote from Tony Mamo (Mamo) 1.875 tube is the way to go.....it would have added about 6-8 peak ponies to the end results but would have cost 15 or so ft/lbs in the 3500-4000 RPM band....that's the trade off of the larger tube primary pipe.
Which cam ? I've been pestering people here for over a year with the same question and I'm still undecided. I think the way to go is to figure out how much overlap your willing to live with and to choose a intake valve close point. Go to this page and put in the cam spec your thinking about. It will give you the valve events for that cam. Adding the intake open and exhaust close will give you the cam's overlap. Generally speaking, more overlap means less piston to valve clearance. Overlap makes power when the engine comes "into tune". I like what Jake Fusion said about overlap. 0 to 4 degrees drives like stock. 4 to 8 is street-able with a good tune. Over 8 and the sacrifices grow. Martin Smallwood said, "(Martin) 2.5 degrees of valve overlap @.050" lobe lift will still cause some power loss off idle up to roughly 1800-2000rpm in a 346" engine." More compression can make a big overlap cam more "low rpm" friendly and your definitely going to have some compression.
You also need to match your cam to your stall. I'm m6 so I can't help you there. I go through a "cam of the week" thang and each week my choice gets smaller. I tell myself, "The thrill of a high dyno number will quickly fade when I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic". This week, my "cam of the week" is a 225/229 113+1
that being said the ai 228/234 would be my choice...or the cam motion titan 4. 1 7/8 headers all the way with TD exhaust. 3800 stall would be sweet or even a 4k.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 04-25-2015 at 07:31 PM.
04-25-2015, 09:18 PM
#6
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OP, your concern over PTV is valid, but it will typically be a larger duration cam that will cause it. Since you are looking for torque per your original post, you'll likely avoid the larger durations anyway. there is a thread for "how to build big torque with a cam change", and the cam ended up being something like 224/228 on a 110 with some advance in it. I'll try to link the thread. it gets heavy. However, with those cam specs, I don't think you'll have to worry about PTV
04-25-2015, 09:19 PM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/481382-torque-coming-out-my-ears-cam-change.html
and definitely go with the 1-7/8 primaries
and definitely go with the 1-7/8 primaries
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04-25-2015, 09:52 PM
#8
Originally Posted by kinglt
recommended preload is .060 for the 5315...per martin and cospeed.
04-25-2015, 10:10 PM
#9
You would need serious valvetrain hardware to run that much lift reliably.
Come to think of it, I wonder if this is Tony Mamo's dirty little secret ? 490 hp from a 227/231 114+1 but he doesn't mention the lift. He has special YT roller rockers w/ 10mm bolts and hi-zoot .750 wheel lifters.
04-26-2015, 07:34 AM
#10
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Sounds like a strong combo. I'm running something similar and it keeps getting faster each time I take it out. Can I recommend looking at Cam Motion? For various reasons I like to recommend them, and even if you select another cam they can have Cam Motion cut it for you! I'm thinking you'd like a Titan4, see here: http://store.cammotion.com/the-titan4
I'm running a very similar but older grind from them, with AI heads cut approx .040 and have 90 and 70 for PTV. With those AI heads midrange power will be phenomenal. I was seriously impressed with how that cam and head combo felt in the midrange. It pulls everywhere and in any gear.....
Here she is putting in work:
I'm running a very similar but older grind from them, with AI heads cut approx .040 and have 90 and 70 for PTV. With those AI heads midrange power will be phenomenal. I was seriously impressed with how that cam and head combo felt in the midrange. It pulls everywhere and in any gear.....
Here she is putting in work:
04-26-2015, 08:02 AM
#12
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All passes that day were between around 11.31 and 11.28/9 IIRC. The car lifts the tire on the street from a low roll 
Its a nice simple combo that is working well. Its in the process of getting a little quicker too, with no major changes at all. There's more left in it.
Here's the launch:
Its a nice simple combo that is working well. Its in the process of getting a little quicker too, with no major changes at all. There's more left in it.Here's the launch:
04-26-2015, 10:31 AM
#14
04-26-2015, 11:45 PM
#16
I just finished reading all 25 pages of PatG's Torque Ears post. Found it hard to believe a EVO of 44 could pull to 7K but the graph don't lie. Times have changed. EVO in the 50's now. And running LSK lobes w/ stock lifters and rockers ?
04-27-2015, 05:01 PM
#17
Pondriver, don't buy that cam ! 224/228 .637/.639 110LSA +0
You would need serious valvetrain hardware to run that much lift reliably.
Come to think of it, I wonder if this is Tony Mamo's dirty little secret ? 490 hp from a 227/231 114+1 but he doesn't mention the lift. He has special YT roller rockers w/ 10mm bolts and hi-zoot .750 wheel lifters.
You would need serious valvetrain hardware to run that much lift reliably.
Come to think of it, I wonder if this is Tony Mamo's dirty little secret ? 490 hp from a 227/231 114+1 but he doesn't mention the lift. He has special YT roller rockers w/ 10mm bolts and hi-zoot .750 wheel lifters.
Its only .614 lift with 227 @ .050
More duration than the 224 you mentioned above (and I agree that .637 with only 224 duration has the potential to be not the smoothest of lobes).
The lobes I use on my custom cams are very smooth.....in fact they are easier on parts than the XER lobes I ran (and a million others) for years but have more area under the curve.....win win
Technology and Comp investing alot of time on the spintron benefiting you there.
You will have to keep looking for the dirty secret.....LOL
Regards,
Tony
PS.....The real secret is a really efficient cylinder head design coupled with all the right supporting parts.....the proverbial "devil is in the details" kind of thing but the foundation of the build is clearly a premium efficient cylinder head. Its not all about flow guys.....velocity (air speed) and flow....more specifically managing the right combination of both in the design of the head, is what really gets it done.
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Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 04-27-2015 at 05:06 PM.
