redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ok guys so as some people know I'm redoing my valvetrain plan as of now is Jesel SS shaft mounts, 11/32 .120 pushrods, PAC 1207x springs shimmed to 170 seat pressure and 460 open. My dyno graph carries to 6800 so ideally a 7000rpm stable valvetrain is the ticket. The only question left is the lifter to support all this? I've talked to so many vendors about what everyone thinks my head hurts. I respect everyone's opinion because they are all very knowledgeable people but there's just so many opinions.

Here is what I have learned so far and hopefully we can go from there. I have decided after talking with Tooley and a few others that Morel is not for me. To many issues have been cataloged here with their lower end lifters. The 5315 is not going to work here so I crossed that one out before I even considered their other options. Morel 5206 5274 etc are nice options but at that point you can go to other brand and get the same type of lifter for less money.

So that leaves Johnson SLR lifters. There are 2 options, I've been told that for my goals above the 2110 would work fine by Tooley and Randy at Johnson. Its a drop in lifter that is slow leak down and is the same one used in the copo camaros that turn 8500 rpm. However they do that with stock rockers and milder springs. The other is the 2116 link bar which is again an slr lifter but has a larger wheel. That lifter was recommended by Mamo and Joel at Johnson.

So in the end I'm torn the price difference between the 2 is about 200 bucks. Which doesnt sound like a lot but when you're on a budget and pricing everything else out another 200 is I already have new ls2 trays so I can take that out of the equation for the 2110s.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

why is the 5315 is not going to work for your application? Too much spring pressure? Also why are you redoing your valvetrain?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Do the short-travel Johnsons.

It's supposed to add about 500 RPM over where you are now (wherever that is) because it acts as a solid lifter at high RPM.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

I talked to Martin and Tooley both who said for what I'm doing the 5315 would be the bare minimum lifter to go with and that it would be marginal.

Jake, you run the 2126? Mind pming or texting me what the price was? Mamo quoted me 550 for the 2116 which is reduced travel at .093. But I figured the 2126 would be a lot more than that. I'm going to call johnson today and get some more infor on the 2110 series for the 2116. I only want to turn 7k but I understand a short travel lifter is better all around in any application. The 2110 does go to 8500 in the copo though.

Tuskyz28

getting very interesting.

SoonerBrad88

iTrader: (15)

I ran the 5315s in mine. I've also got the same springs and 3/8" .120 wall pushrods. Martin said these lifters would work fine for my application but I only plan on spinning mine to 65-6800

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ya I must say i've learned a lot with this whole thing. What I have learned is that a lot of people dont care for the morels and many iof those people are VERY well respected on this site. The 5315 is about on par or even slightly below with the standard ls7 lifter depending on who you talk to. The 5315 is a better design yes but from what from I'm being told the ls7 really holds its own again the 5315 for less money. The 5290 morel also has a pretty high failure rate with the pins coming loose. Those statements all came from very respected people on this site. Basically from what I gather if you go morel go to the 5206 link bar.

As far as other lifters go the johnsons really are nice pieces, and they are all slow leak down with the option for short travel. They may look the same but after speaking from both companies the johnson is much better. Better tolerances, better springs and most of all a forged steel body instead of cast like the lower end morels (5315 5290 etc). The 2110 and 2110r are about as good as you get before going full billet or link bar. Up from that you go to the 2116lsr which is their entry level link bar.

So in summary here are the specs I have gathered through hours of research and hopefully they help someone out......

Stock Gm LS7 ball based design (.200) travel .080 preload preferred
Morel 5315 Disk based design (.200) travel stock replacement ~.050 prelaod
Johnson 2110 disk based design (.200) travel stock type drop in .035-.045 preload
Johnson 2110R disk based design (.150) travel same as 2110 made for higher revs and shorter travel .035-.040 preload
Morel 5206 (.130) travel .060 preload
Johnson 2116lsr (.093) travel .035-.045 preload
Johnson ST2116lsr (.053) travel preload unknown

Basically if you want a badass drop in the 2110 is it. The r is made usually for BBC guys running higher rpm that still want a drop in lifter. It is the same internally as the 2110 but with reduced travel for more rpm. They may look the same on the outside but that lifter is far superior to the 5315 or ls7. Basically I was doing a stock valvetrain and had an extra 200 I'd invest in the 2110 vs the 5315 every day. The 2110 series is also slow leak down where the morel is not.

The 5206 is the competitor to the 2116lsr. If was choosing between the 2 I'd go to the 2116 for 2 reasons right off the bat. One is that the morel is about 125 more than the johnson, and 2 is that the johnson has less travel. The less travel at high rpm will allow for a more stable curve.

From there both companies offer axle oiled link bars and short travel ones in the .050 range but thats out of the scope of my price rang or what I want to do. The 2116 can be had for around 550 and the morel for 675. Thats about as high as the diy guy would probably go to buy a good lifter.

I should add that the reason I cannot use the 5315 is the rockers and spring pressure. To run roller rockers you need more springs and more pushrod in which case more strain on the lifter. I'll also be running .080 wall 3/8 pushrods which ar e actually stiffer than 11/32 .120 wall. I just to clearance my 243s while theyre off.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

What heads are you running with the 3/8 pushrods? Did you need to clearance them?

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

This site cracks me up...I spent a bunch of time doing research before I bought my lifters and everybody said the 5315 is a much better lifter then the LS7. Especially the units from 2014 on that have the revised design. Now all of a sudden it is sub par to the LS7 in 2 months time lmao. You can look at the LS7 and the current 5315 and easily tell which one is superior. Btw I spoke with those names you mention and the only one that did not recommend the 5315 was Tony.

I can see the 5315 not being advised for your setup with the spring pressure and rockers you are running. Again why are you overhauling the valvetrain? Did you change cams or been dealing with valve float issues?

Btw I appreciate you putting this info out here. I am just a little annoyed that many recommended the 5315 for my setup and now I am reading this lifter is sub par to a LS7. Does not make me very happy. I would of went with the 2110 Johnson had is been brought to my attention. I just did not see the need to spend 650.00 on a short travel. Hell I would go tight lash solid roller before I did that.

SoonerBrad88

iTrader: (15)

I'm running an 853 casting with a cnc port job from LPE according to the guy I bought them from on here. The pushrod holes were untouched. I had to run a double taper to fit the 3/8". I called Martin and that's what he suggested so I went with it. They're from Trend.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Johnson ST2116lsr (.053) travel preload unknown - preload with that is around .035 or so cold in an aluminum block. I set mine for .034-038 across the board and it'll grow as it heats up to close to .028-.032" or so.

I would advise against the 5290s. They have a lot of failures on this site. They are a cast body as well. If you're going to do that, might as well just get the LS7s.

But I think the link bars are worth the money. So stepping up to a 5206 or the Johnson 2110s or better would be worth it.

Also, I got my ST2116LSRs for the same price as the 5206s. I was able to sell off my 5206s and offset the swap. For the price (if they are within $100 of each other) it's not a contest. You do the ST2116s every. single. day.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ok cool ya since my heads will be off I'm just going to have the holes clearanced for 3/8 rods. Theyre stronger than the tapered ones and MUCH cheaper.

Me24seven

Good info

SoonerBrad88

iTrader: (15)

Yeah I would do the same if I had extra $ in my budget. In the long run I probably ended up spending more but owell. Live and learn.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The double taper 3/8" pushrods should fit a GM casting head and most if not all aftermarket castings. The 11/32 will fit anything as well, but the 3/8" are even stronger.

I believe the TFS castings allow for a straight 3/8" pushrod out of the box.

Tuskyz28

I like how in depth this thread is going. Same thing needs to be done on timing chains too.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ya the tfs heads can, I would do a taper if they werent so expensive. 350 was the price when I called manton. The way I look at it is enlarging the holes is a tiny cost even if the machine shop does it. And 3/8 straight pushrods are cheap, only a few dollars more than 5/16 and they're stronger than the tapered so why not??
So start one!

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Lol negative. Talk to most guys that's have dealt with TFS heads. They'll tell you that's a lie. And it sure was on my 235's. I even had brass sleeves put in to try and fit straight wall 3/8" magnum pushrods. Still rubbed. Had to go with Trend dual tapers.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Damn, that's a little crazy. I know some guys that use the TFS heads regularly and while they would agree that a 3/8" won't always clear, I don't think they've ever needed the pushrod hole tubed.

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Might be because I'm using yella Terra's.