So I put a lq4 in my car. New oil pump, new rings, bearings, valve train ect, stock crank, pistons and rods. Car runs, and makes a bunch of oil right away. Wipes every bearing with in 50 miles.

So I get another lq4 block and crank. I re use my old piston and rods and that's it. I'm also re using my f body oil pan and pick up and heads. Different oil pumps.

First motor didn't have a pressure gauge on it.

This new motor, on the stand with the plugs out, I can't get to build pressure. It pushes oil up to stock pressure port on the valley pan but does not create any measurable pressure. Confirmed with 3 guages. Also no oil getting to the heads.

Whatever killed my first motor has obviously been transferred to this motor.

So things that I took from the first lq
Heads
Cam
Piston and rods
Oil pan and pick up


Things that are new to this engine
Block
Crank
Oil pump
Covers

Pick up looks crack free. I had it sonic cleaned.
Any tips, suggestions anything, them out there.

 

You must prime it with a pressurized tank/ container holding oil through the galley on the driver"s side, font of engine. Rotate your crankshaft 90* every few minutes while priming it. This is what I did to get all the air out of the system and to get a decent pressure reading at the back of the block oil pressure port. Melling makes a tool specifically for this but some on this site have made them with a cheep garden sprayer...

 

Leave your v/c's off so you can see that every rocker is dripping oil, when they're all rolling oil off, they're done.

 

I'll have to give that a shot. I'm at the end of my rope.

Even if was air bound, wouldn't it bleed itself pretty quickly after start up? I still haven found a reason why my first motor died and now I have this second on track for the same fate

 

What trans? Looking at the pics in your other thread, it looks like your thrust was almost worn to nothing. 9 times out of 10, that's a driveline problem.

With this engine, how are you trying to build pressure?

 

Couldn't say that it would bleed itself or not but you can prove to yourself it has pressure by priming it. I found some good LS1 priming instruction on youtube. You'll have to remove your alt. to do it. Lot's of people on here have had to do this. I borrowed the Melling pot from my machinist, he uses it a lot for Subaru rebuilds.

 

its a t56. Thrust was one of the potential culprits but to be honest, the thrust bearing was worn just as much as the rest of the bearings.

definitely still a suspect, but even pushing the clutch in, it made no change in idle speed.

This engine is on a stand, plugs out, no manifolds, full of oil.

So ive taken the allen port off the side of the block and tried squeezing oil into the block. It will take some but it gets to a certian point and just stops taking oil.

Ive pulled the pan and checked and even changed the oring on the pick up.

I even went as far as packing the oil pump full of vasoline. After that is actaully when it started getting oil to the valley pan port.

 

So part of me wants to get up early tomorrow, throw the car in the motor and just hope it builds pressure.

But more of me wants to see some kind of measurable pressure before i kill another engine.

Such a stupid problem to have. So frustrating.

 

We meant what you knew.

Dumb question, but you've got the barbell in place under the rear cover right? That'll do low pressure. Also, what are your main bearing clearances? This is the one time a distributor was nice. Use a drill to spin the oil pump. No guess work. I've never had the starter trick let me down, but that's a grand total of three motors.

 

haha, another part of me does want to throw the car off a cliff so maybe i wasnt too far off on that one, lol.

i never checked the main bearing clearences because the bearings were orginal to the block/crank and they looked pretty

 

So odd, I used assembly lube on my build and with the injectors unplugged and spark plugs out I had 50 psi with just the starter on my very first engine full rebuild. Took a little longer then I liked but once fired up and warm I get 43psi at idle. Melling HV and stock pressure spring. I did blueprint the whole block though.

I hope it's something minor for you. The barbell would be a good place to look. Not exactly easy though.

 

Did you verify pick-up to pan clearance?
The block plugs, especially if that barbell was installed backwards, will prohibit oil flow.
Bearing clearances could be too tight.

 

I know its not "right", but I haven't primed an LS motor yet and each lived a long life untill boost blew it up. Once installed with the plugs out and engine cranking, I wait for oit to come out of the oil line feeding the turbo, and that it. Assembly lube (I just use oil) is suppose to protect the surfaces until oil gets to them and it will once the engine actually runs.

Kinda like an engine sitting around for a while and all the oil comes off and drips back into the pan, there's still enough oil on the surfaces to protect them until it is replaced with new oil.

As long as you did everything right (no leaks, barbell in place etc), douse whatever you can with oil and run it!

EDIT - I can build a little pressure just cranking the engine, maybe 15 20psi. But this is an engine that has been running as is primed.

 

dburt86, did you see this question?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...g-threads.html

 

Oops skimmed right over that question.

The barbell and "freeze" plug are in place on this motor and the last motor.

I have not checked the oil pan to pick up clearence. It's all factory stuff, should I anyways?

So I know the engine is moving oil because it comes out of the stock sending unit port, but it doesn't make any measurable pressure.

If I didn't just cook a block from low oil pressure, I would just start the engine.

 

I've seen thrust issues caused by manual transmissions too, but on a different engine family. With the thrust worn like that, I really think that is where the debris is originating from and damaging the main and rod bearings as a consequence. I haven't really ever seen the reverse scenario where the thrust was worn because of an issue originating with the main or rod bearings.

Could you be more specific about how you're trying to get oil pressure on a stand? I don't understand what you mean by "squeezing oil".

IMHO, you should at least use Plastigauge. It's not the best, it's not even all that great, but it's better than nothing.

Who is doing assembly? How are you setting the thrust bearing?

Ditto. I've never primed an LS engine. It's not necessary but it makes people feel better I think. Unless there are a bunch of auxiliary components that use oil (turbo, oil cooler, VVT/AFM, etc), I usually see oil pressure within a second of initial startup.

I do use different lubricants on the friction surfaces (pushrod tips, valve tips, etc) so that they do not start up dry. If you put pushrods and rockers on dry, then a oil prime would be a good idea.

 

The fact that you had some oil coming out of the gauge port shows that there's oil in the oil pump and it's pushing. This also means you would have NOT needed to prime the oil system. In these modern engines with remote located oil pumps (oil pump NOT located in the oil sump) sometimes they need a second or two after starting to get the oil sucked into the pump. This can happen on every engine at every start up-more so when the engine has been sitting for a long time, the oil drains out of the pump into the pan. This is normal and doesn't result in damage.

Good thing you're using the "spin on stand" method to confirm proper oil pressure before installing this engine. Of course, keep doing this until this mystery is solved.

Please confirm that you did NOT pack the oil pump with grease or Vaseline or some other stuff.

What oil filter are you using?

You need to figure out where the oil flow is finding an easier path to flow to instead of pressurizing the oil galleys.

Is the oil pump body flat square and flush up against the block where it sends oil into the left side main galley?

How does the oil pan gasket and oil pan line up with the in & out ports to the filter boss in the oil pan?

Have a close look at this oil pan. You may have inadvertently transferred the cause of the problem from the first engine to the second engine.

 

KCS- I'm assembling the engines. I've done a few succeful assemblies in the past and I thought I knew what I was doing up until today lol.

The squeezing of oil was literally taking a bottle of engine oil, with a barb fitting going to the side port on the block and physically squeezing the bottle like you would with diff. It's an air tight seal and it would initially squeeze some oil into the engine and then come to a point where it stopped taking oil, no matter the pressure put on the bottle.

Paul-
Unfortunately I did use Vaseline in the pump. I wish I didn't but I did.

As of now I'm using a purolator filter

The pump is sealing. I had the front cover off while trying to prime the system and could not see any oil bleeding from anything in the front.
Oil pan gasket lines up good with the 2 ports. I have a gauge drilled and tapped on the cover right there along with another mechanical fuel pressure gauge at the valley pan port.

Today I fabbed up a pressure oiler. The motor took 8qts rather quickly, still didn't make any pressure and still no oil up top. This, in my mind, confirms there's a real issue. Something is bleeding my oil pressure off. Pan is coming off again right now and I'm checking the pressure relief valve in the pump, possibly swapping it out with a used ls1 pump for diag.

 

 

Pulled the pan and inspected the pump. Found the pressure relief valve stuck open. Relaxed the oil pump with a low mileage ls1 pump.

Still hasn't been able to creat its own pressure but with the air pressure oiler we are seeing oil pressure.

Just got the last lifter to bleed but still can create its own pressure