Straub Bushing Trunion Kits?
11-12-2017, 09:39 PM
#841
interesting that u says this... I have yet to hear any negative feedback on straub kits till now. I put 1k on my car this summer and that’s 1k of beating on it every chance i get. I drained 3 qts and found nothing in the oil. 10w30 mobil 1 synthetic and purolator filter.
11-13-2017, 04:50 AM
#842
10 Second Club
I fully expect "some" gold in the pan, but only a fine powder/color at best. (and very little)
I have rebuilt gear boxes at work that have bronze babbitt bushing/bearings where they have 24/7/300+ days a year runtime.
Yes, issues occur when the oil is low or even the wrong type as some oils don't have the additives and will eat/attack the bronze.
11-28-2017, 10:46 AM
#845
12-18-2017, 04:40 AM
#846
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jul 2005
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You do know who Kurt Urban is right? He has probably put more engines together and had more experience with LS engines than anyone in this industry. If he felt that was the best way to go, then that was the best way to go.
The needle bearings that encapsulate a LS stock rocker arm do not rotate 360* like needle bearings that encapsulate a lifter axle. Two totally different applications. The same needles are loaded over and over again with a stock LS rocker arm versus a roller lifter that "rolls" and allows the bearings to rotate 360*.
There are many manufacturers that now sell roller lifters that utilize a bushing to encapsulate the axle on a roller lifter. They are using bushings because they spread the load out over a larger surface area and thus can handle much more spring pressure and RPM. They are superior to a needle bearing in this aspect which is why using a bushing to encapsulate a LS rocker arm trunion is a better idea. Since that bearing or bushing is loaded over and over again, it is better to use a bushing that spreads that load out over a larger amount of area and doesn't concentrate load in a smaller amount of surface area as seen in Kurt's pictures.
I would be willing to bet that if you were to examine the trunions on a street/strip engine with moderate valve lift and duration and one that has over 10K miles you'd see very similar wear. The physics involving that wear doesn't change no matter if it's a street/strip application or a road course application. Yes the road course engine may have more high RPM cycles, but the load is still similar and still concentrated in the same area.
I'll let Kurt give his experiences with street/strip type engines and not try to put the cart too far in front of the horse, but I am willing to bet he has seen the same wear in less demanding applications.
The needle bearings that encapsulate a LS stock rocker arm do not rotate 360* like needle bearings that encapsulate a lifter axle. Two totally different applications. The same needles are loaded over and over again with a stock LS rocker arm versus a roller lifter that "rolls" and allows the bearings to rotate 360*.
There are many manufacturers that now sell roller lifters that utilize a bushing to encapsulate the axle on a roller lifter. They are using bushings because they spread the load out over a larger surface area and thus can handle much more spring pressure and RPM. They are superior to a needle bearing in this aspect which is why using a bushing to encapsulate a LS rocker arm trunion is a better idea. Since that bearing or bushing is loaded over and over again, it is better to use a bushing that spreads that load out over a larger amount of area and doesn't concentrate load in a smaller amount of surface area as seen in Kurt's pictures.
I would be willing to bet that if you were to examine the trunions on a street/strip engine with moderate valve lift and duration and one that has over 10K miles you'd see very similar wear. The physics involving that wear doesn't change no matter if it's a street/strip application or a road course application. Yes the road course engine may have more high RPM cycles, but the load is still similar and still concentrated in the same area.
I'll let Kurt give his experiences with street/strip type engines and not try to put the cart too far in front of the horse, but I am willing to bet he has seen the same wear in less demanding applications.
So where does this statement about 360* of rotation come from?
12-18-2017, 07:18 AM
#847
Roller tips don't actually roll across the valve. They slide. And trunnion aren't going to start rotating a full 360* just from swapping from needle bearings to bushings. They never rotated 360* to begin with. That won't change just from swapping to bronze bushings.
So where does this statement about 360* of rotation come from?
So where does this statement about 360* of rotation come from?
12-19-2017, 06:08 AM
#848
TECH Addict
With the stock rockers the rocker in your hand won't rotate 360 degrees spinning it. With the trunion upgrade the rocker rotates 360 degrees in your hand. Obviously the rockers don't rotate 360 degrees on the motor. If they did you would have a lot more to worry about than the rockers.
01-11-2018, 11:24 AM
#849
Wow! I finally finished reading this entire thread.
My machine shop recommended the OE rockers with the OE bearings and trunnions. This is on my 418 LS3 with heavy double springs, stainless valves, and high lift cam.
I ran this info by them and they said I can do whatever I want, but they have more problems with other internal part failures than they do with the rockers and trunnions.
In their opinion the OE needles fail due to lake of maintenance and high mileage.
IDK, part of me wants to jump on the wagon and get me some, other part says heck with it. If I'm going to be pulling the rockers off and inspecting them every 5 to 10k miles I may as well use the OE bearings and just replace them every 20k or so. Just do it like part of a tune up. Suppose I could just plan on doing it every winter when the car is down. Not that difficult, and really not that expensive.
My other concern about the bushings is the difference in friction. Seems like the bushings would create more friction than rollers.
Again, I don't know. Just thinkin.
My machine shop recommended the OE rockers with the OE bearings and trunnions. This is on my 418 LS3 with heavy double springs, stainless valves, and high lift cam.
I ran this info by them and they said I can do whatever I want, but they have more problems with other internal part failures than they do with the rockers and trunnions.
In their opinion the OE needles fail due to lake of maintenance and high mileage.
IDK, part of me wants to jump on the wagon and get me some, other part says heck with it. If I'm going to be pulling the rockers off and inspecting them every 5 to 10k miles I may as well use the OE bearings and just replace them every 20k or so. Just do it like part of a tune up. Suppose I could just plan on doing it every winter when the car is down. Not that difficult, and really not that expensive.
My other concern about the bushings is the difference in friction. Seems like the bushings would create more friction than rollers.
Again, I don't know. Just thinkin.
01-11-2018, 04:54 PM
#850
Wow! I finally finished reading this entire thread.
My machine shop recommended the OE rockers with the OE bearings and trunnions. This is on my 418 LS3 with heavy double springs, stainless valves, and high lift cam.
I ran this info by them and they said I can do whatever I want, but they have more problems with other internal part failures than they do with the rockers and trunnions.
In their opinion the OE needles fail due to lake of maintenance and high mileage.
IDK, part of me wants to jump on the wagon and get me some, other part says heck with it. If I'm going to be pulling the rockers off and inspecting them every 5 to 10k miles I may as well use the OE bearings and just replace them every 20k or so. Just do it like part of a tune up. Suppose I could just plan on doing it every winter when the car is down. Not that difficult, and really not that expensive.
My other concern about the bushings is the difference in friction. Seems like the bushings would create more friction than rollers.
Again, I don't know. Just thinkin.
My machine shop recommended the OE rockers with the OE bearings and trunnions. This is on my 418 LS3 with heavy double springs, stainless valves, and high lift cam.
I ran this info by them and they said I can do whatever I want, but they have more problems with other internal part failures than they do with the rockers and trunnions.
In their opinion the OE needles fail due to lake of maintenance and high mileage.
IDK, part of me wants to jump on the wagon and get me some, other part says heck with it. If I'm going to be pulling the rockers off and inspecting them every 5 to 10k miles I may as well use the OE bearings and just replace them every 20k or so. Just do it like part of a tune up. Suppose I could just plan on doing it every winter when the car is down. Not that difficult, and really not that expensive.
My other concern about the bushings is the difference in friction. Seems like the bushings would create more friction than rollers.
Again, I don't know. Just thinkin.
01-11-2018, 05:09 PM
#851
Bronze bushings have been used in heavy duty diesel engines for a very long time and they are very durable. I have been running the Struab bushings since the beginning with out any problems at all. Do not use OE bearings in the rockers... Take your pick from Straub or CHE and don't give it a second thought.
01-12-2018, 10:18 AM
#852
Bronze bushings have been used in heavy duty diesel engines for a very long time and they are very durable. I have been running the Struab bushings since the beginning with out any problems at all. Do not use OE bearings in the rockers... Take your pick from Straub or CHE and don't give it a second thought.
Just curious,
I went with the Straub bushings after reading through this thread, but how many miles do have you put on them since install? Is it a cruiser or strip car? No one so far has put down what kind of wear or miles they've put on since their install that I'm aware of.
01-12-2018, 10:53 AM
#853
03-11-2018, 10:02 AM
#855
Looking to buy another bushing retrofit kit for another motor build. I read that the Summit brand are fakes? Looking to purchase soon as I just disassembled a extra set and cleaned up for bushing install. Is it still best to purchase from straub directly? Who has the cheapest price?
03-11-2018, 10:51 AM
#856
TECH Senior Member
Don't do cheap; do GOOD!
03-11-2018, 11:29 AM
#857
I installed a CHE kit. Only has about 300 miles on it, no issues and no signs of bronze material in the oil. Super easy to install with this http://www.powerhouseproducts.com/ph...tall-toolhtml/
I did use the GM install procedure to install this kit, I will report back when I get 3000 miles on the kit, I'll pull the valve covers and check the wear on a few bushings.
I did use the GM install procedure to install this kit, I will report back when I get 3000 miles on the kit, I'll pull the valve covers and check the wear on a few bushings.
03-11-2018, 11:40 AM
#858
your I installed a CHE kit. Only has about 300 miles on it, no issues and no signs of bronze material in the oil. Super easy to install with this http://www.powerhouseproducts.com/ph...tall-toolhtml/
I did use the GM install procedure to install this kit, I will report back when I get 3000 miles on the kit, I'll pull the valve covers and check the wear on a few bushings.
I did use the GM install procedure to install this kit, I will report back when I get 3000 miles on the kit, I'll pull the valve covers and check the wear on a few bushings.
03-11-2018, 11:51 AM
#859
thats why u went with a straub kit on my first set. I was just wondering, found my first kit on eBay and was able to use a coupon to get like $20 off or something. Having a hard time finding the kits now besides straubs site and with so many fakes out there it’s hard to tell.
