Why did I come up short?? 487hp is not 500+
03-04-2016, 02:23 PM
#41
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Just from the #'s, not even seeing the graph, I think you did pretty darn good. I also don't think too many,if any, 500rwhp N/A 346 builds are budget. Around stock compression also. Good job man. If I wanted to hit that goal..better heads. Then work around that.
03-04-2016, 02:34 PM
#42
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Just from the #'s, not even seeing the graph, I think you did pretty darn good. I also don't think too many,if any, 500rwhp N/A 346 builds are budget. Around stock compression also. Good job man. If I wanted to hit that goal..better heads. Then work around that.
03-04-2016, 03:26 PM
#43
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frustrated because I have neither - car doesnt drive too well and also missed the number - I was out to prove a point - you can have a 500+ LS on a reasonable budget and skills if you follow XYZ recipe.
How many posts are there about people wanting 500? but there isnt a LOT on how to get there. I wanted (and still do) to change that.
basically i tried to "have my cake and eat it too" but someone smashed my head in the cake before I could take a bite. Then they took the damn thing away leaving me with nothing - AND looking dumb. lol
How many posts are there about people wanting 500? but there isnt a LOT on how to get there. I wanted (and still do) to change that.
basically i tried to "have my cake and eat it too" but someone smashed my head in the cake before I could take a bite. Then they took the damn thing away leaving me with nothing - AND looking dumb. lol
You might still find some parasitic losses, or you might just need better heads. if your HG truly is .051", going to a .041" MLS will bump compression about 0.3-0.5-ish and reduce detonation potential. The compression might also improve the driveability of the car. Certainly, larger cams like more compression.
Honestly, I salute your effort here. you must have paid attention to a thousand details that normally get overlooked to do as well as you did
03-04-2016, 03:49 PM
#44
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I laughed out loud at this and got funny looks from co-workers. I don't think you ended up looking dumb at all. You may have reached the limit of stock castings on 346CI with your cam and intake. Aftermarket heads do have some design advantages, not the least of which is port efficiency (flow/volume)
You might still find some parasitic losses, or you might just need better heads. if your HG truly is .051", going to a .041" MLS will bump compression about 0.3-0.5-ish and reduce detonation potential. The compression might also improve the driveability of the car. Certainly, larger cams like more compression.
Honestly, I salute your effort here. you must have paid attention to a thousand details that normally get overlooked to do as well as you did
You might still find some parasitic losses, or you might just need better heads. if your HG truly is .051", going to a .041" MLS will bump compression about 0.3-0.5-ish and reduce detonation potential. The compression might also improve the driveability of the car. Certainly, larger cams like more compression.
Honestly, I salute your effort here. you must have paid attention to a thousand details that normally get overlooked to do as well as you did
I think I might grab another set of gaskets after my race. First I will measure the PTV and get gaskets accordingly to really tighten it down. thinking about .060" and .080" on PTV for intake and exhaust, thoughts? (I could have it backwards, but I'm a little too tired to think) Also not sure if I should go to the OE rockers with trunion upgrade. Road racing is a lot of high R's and I worry those will add a lot to wear on the guides. (Which are stock too). Just don't want to spend another boatload of cash on pushrods again...
How would thinner gaskets - raising compression - help REDUCE detonation tho?
Everyone has been giving me a hard time about why it took me 2-3 months to do H/C/I and what not - the reason why is the details. Took me forever to figure out and nail down properly. BUT now that the numbers are in, some of them have been asking for help. Nice change of pace, and I'm stoked I did it. But as it goes - need more! lol
Last edited by nskyline34; 03-04-2016 at 03:56 PM.
03-04-2016, 05:12 PM
#45
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Tightening up quench helps control detonation, because there is less gap between the piston and head, which forces more of the mixture into the actual combustion chamber. Better geometry. That's why it helps, even though compression goes UP. Too tight, and you can have collision issues. If your bottom end is stock, your pistons come out .006", which with a .041" HG makes quench .035", which is typically what gets recommended by the experts.
However, if you go to a thinner HG, with your shorter travel lifters, you'll need to be careful. You'll pick up .010" preload. Should still be OK, but be aware.
On the rockers, I think you'd be better getting lighter valves than you would to change the rockers. That will do wonders for valvetrain stability.
However, if you go to a thinner HG, with your shorter travel lifters, you'll need to be careful. You'll pick up .010" preload. Should still be OK, but be aware.
On the rockers, I think you'd be better getting lighter valves than you would to change the rockers. That will do wonders for valvetrain stability.
03-04-2016, 05:29 PM
#46
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Tightening up quench helps control detonation, because there is less gap between the piston and head, which forces more of the mixture into the actual combustion chamber. Better geometry. That's why it helps, even though compression goes UP. Too tight, and you can have collision issues. If your bottom end is stock, your pistons come out .006", which with a .041" HG makes quench .035", which is typically what gets recommended by the experts.
However, if you go to a thinner HG, with your shorter travel lifters, you'll need to be careful. You'll pick up .010" preload. Should still be OK, but be aware.
On the rockers, I think you'd be better getting lighter valves than you would to change the rockers. That will do wonders for valvetrain stability.
However, if you go to a thinner HG, with your shorter travel lifters, you'll need to be careful. You'll pick up .010" preload. Should still be OK, but be aware.
On the rockers, I think you'd be better getting lighter valves than you would to change the rockers. That will do wonders for valvetrain stability.
PTV clearance for intake and exhaust? I'll order gaskets soon... Also having .010 more preload would actually put me in the middle of where johnsons said I should be! Lol
Luckily I still have my old clay impressions!
03-04-2016, 05:54 PM
#47
dyno numbers are what help sell your brain power. just because someone runs a XX.XX ET is great, but there is a lot of variables in the equation. However dyno numbers help to bring a lot of variables out.
no one builds a car to go 'faster' they build it to go 'as fast as ____' or have some goal in mind.
yes, numbers are only 1/2 of it. but if you can have a car drive about the same as another but make 20, 30, or 50 hp more than another, which would you drive?
I agree though, a dyno queen will throw down STUPID numbers - good luck drivng it though. This was supposed to be drivability FIRST and 500 second... but if I cant have one then damnit I want the other. lol so far I have neither! lol
no one builds a car to go 'faster' they build it to go 'as fast as ____' or have some goal in mind.
yes, numbers are only 1/2 of it. but if you can have a car drive about the same as another but make 20, 30, or 50 hp more than another, which would you drive?
I agree though, a dyno queen will throw down STUPID numbers - good luck drivng it though. This was supposed to be drivability FIRST and 500 second... but if I cant have one then damnit I want the other. lol so far I have neither! lol
03-04-2016, 07:12 PM
#49
I think that those are great numbers for what you are running. I have the same heads and had a similar motor and didn't get close, but I am also running a th400 and 9".
In an attempt to save a little, I am still running the same heads, but on a 408. Horrible numbers and I learned my lesson. But it doesn't matter because I am changing it up and going the turbo route in a few years.
In an attempt to save a little, I am still running the same heads, but on a 408. Horrible numbers and I learned my lesson. But it doesn't matter because I am changing it up and going the turbo route in a few years.
03-04-2016, 07:47 PM
#51
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Definitely true of the fast throttle body. The nick Williams is already drilled out past 3/8". I checked. Over in the tuning section, the nick Williams is the one that seems to get the best marks.
03-05-2016, 06:13 AM
#54
OP,
It was good speaking with you earlier....alot of good ideas already being thrown around this thread.
May I ask why you haven't posted the dyno graph yet?.....it actually provides good intel on what was going on.....the shape of the curve....where peak power and peak TQ occur etc.
I was also curious about how much peak TQ it made but mostly I would like to see the entire curve as Im sure alot of others would as well
Post it up this weekend if you get the chance
Mamo OUT
It was good speaking with you earlier....alot of good ideas already being thrown around this thread.
May I ask why you haven't posted the dyno graph yet?.....it actually provides good intel on what was going on.....the shape of the curve....where peak power and peak TQ occur etc.
I was also curious about how much peak TQ it made but mostly I would like to see the entire curve as Im sure alot of others would as well
Post it up this weekend if you get the chance
Mamo OUT
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Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
03-05-2016, 09:46 AM
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Why did I come up short?? 487hp is not 500+ I didn't read through all the comments but what type of dyno did you take it to? Mustang dyno will give you lower numbers then the dyno jet, mine makes 486rwhp on a dyno jet and 431rwhp on a stupid Mustang dyno ,that type of number jump pissed me off
My set up is a stock internal 5.7
102LSXR with a Nick Williams 102 Big mouth
My MAF is stock I wonder if changing that to a 100mm from TSP would change the hp rating?
MS4 cam
PRC 225 as cast heads
McLeod RST twin Disk
Detroit tru trac and 4:10's
My set up is a stock internal 5.7
102LSXR with a Nick Williams 102 Big mouth
My MAF is stock I wonder if changing that to a 100mm from TSP would change the hp rating?
MS4 cam
PRC 225 as cast heads
McLeod RST twin Disk
Detroit tru trac and 4:10's
Last edited by BlackVortex; 03-05-2016 at 10:04 AM.
03-05-2016, 10:05 AM
#59
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sorry, wasn't talking about the blade. The IAC port in a lot of aftermarket units is only 3/16", so they do t move enough air. NW is 3/8. NW blade does not come drilled.
03-05-2016, 10:56 AM
#60
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OP,
It was good speaking with you earlier....alot of good ideas already being thrown around this thread.
May I ask why you haven't posted the dyno graph yet?.....it actually provides good intel on what was going on.....the shape of the curve....where peak power and peak TQ occur etc.
I was also curious about how much peak TQ it made but mostly I would like to see the entire curve as Im sure alot of others would as well
Post it up this weekend if you get the chance
Mamo OUT
It was good speaking with you earlier....alot of good ideas already being thrown around this thread.
May I ask why you haven't posted the dyno graph yet?.....it actually provides good intel on what was going on.....the shape of the curve....where peak power and peak TQ occur etc.
I was also curious about how much peak TQ it made but mostly I would like to see the entire curve as Im sure alot of others would as well
Post it up this weekend if you get the chance
Mamo OUT
I will try to later today.
I can post the graph I do have though (452/428) - but how the hell do you post to forums???
Worst case I will just pay to have another pull made so people don't think I'm full of ****