Windage Tray: necessary?
Your engine will run fine with a rod/piston/injector not installed on any one cylinder.
You can also drive a car with your feet if you wan to.
Doesn't make it a good idea.
You can also drive a car with your feet if you wan to.
Doesn't make it a good idea.
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From: Central Cal.
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...
He supplied an "A" engine AND requested a VERY DEEP "windowed" Oil Pan be installed allowing a "view" of the internal oil windage with a running engine.
A lot was learned with ANOTHER MYTH proved incorrect.
The engine oil is NOT "thrown" into the Oil Pan, in fact the opposite occurs.
The oil remains attached to the crankshaft, rods, rotating items such as you find in a Tornado.
I called the effect a Salt Water Taffy.
...
He supplied an "A" engine AND requested a VERY DEEP "windowed" Oil Pan be installed allowing a "view" of the internal oil windage with a running engine.
A lot was learned with ANOTHER MYTH proved incorrect.
The engine oil is NOT "thrown" into the Oil Pan, in fact the opposite occurs.
The oil remains attached to the crankshaft, rods, rotating items such as you find in a Tornado.
I called the effect a Salt Water Taffy.
...
Would still love to see testing on this. Maybe Improved Racing has done testing on the LS platform, tray vs. no tray?
As I said previously, my super high end circle track sbc’s made more power without the trays. Dyno proven results, but a different engine platform.
As I said previously, my super high end circle track sbc’s made more power without the trays. Dyno proven results, but a different engine platform.
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We've never done a test with no windage tray at all. It would be interesting to see what happens but might be a little risky if it results in foamy oil, causing oil starvation and engine damage. Not sure if we want to blow up an engine just to find out.
It's definitely a good idea to run a windage tray. Why not?
A crank scraper is even more effective at removing oil from the rotating assembly. In some cases we run a crank scraper and no windage tray. In the C5 batwing pan, for example, we run a scraper but our windage tray won't clear the pan. Because the pan is so shallow and close to the rotating assembly already, with a crank scraper in place you don't really need a tray as the covered upper section of the oil pan basically acts as a windage tray.
It's definitely a good idea to run a windage tray. Why not?
A crank scraper is even more effective at removing oil from the rotating assembly. In some cases we run a crank scraper and no windage tray. In the C5 batwing pan, for example, we run a scraper but our windage tray won't clear the pan. Because the pan is so shallow and close to the rotating assembly already, with a crank scraper in place you don't really need a tray as the covered upper section of the oil pan basically acts as a windage tray.
Water Thunder Oil Pan Tech Hi ALL, my customer Dave Hartz, Water Thunder, assembles over 400 LS engine in a years time.
We shared some Oil Pan Tech when I designed my LS Oil Pan.
He stated that he was able to report "tech" about an engine test with NO OIL PAN FITTED.
This engine was benched AND a 1/2 cut open 55 gal fuel drum was placed under the operating engine.
The Back/Back dyno reported a HP increase when NO Pan was fitted.
Call Dave for the full report or Engines.
Lance
We shared some Oil Pan Tech when I designed my LS Oil Pan.
He stated that he was able to report "tech" about an engine test with NO OIL PAN FITTED.
This engine was benched AND a 1/2 cut open 55 gal fuel drum was placed under the operating engine.
The Back/Back dyno reported a HP increase when NO Pan was fitted.
Call Dave for the full report or Engines.
Lance
Hi ALL, my customer Dave Hartz, Water Thunder, assembles over 400 LS engine in a years time.
We shared some Oil Pan Tech when I designed my LS Oil Pan.
He stated that he was able to report "tech" about an engine test with NO OIL PAN FITTED.
This engine was benched AND a 1/2 cut open 55 gal fuel drum was placed under the operating engine.
The Back/Back dyno reported a HP increase when NO Pan was fitted.
Call Dave for the full report or Engines.
Lance
We shared some Oil Pan Tech when I designed my LS Oil Pan.
He stated that he was able to report "tech" about an engine test with NO OIL PAN FITTED.
This engine was benched AND a 1/2 cut open 55 gal fuel drum was placed under the operating engine.
The Back/Back dyno reported a HP increase when NO Pan was fitted.
Call Dave for the full report or Engines.
Lance
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Brett Foote TECH Senior Member
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Don't be so freakin' IGNORANT! It shows what happens when what's below the crank is not a factor, and it IS GOOD TO KNOW! Lance has more experience/knowledge in his left pinky than you ever will.
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I think you're focusing on the speaker instead of the message. It's not rocket science to figure out that the crank hitting the oil in the pan will cause resistance. If the topic was about running a deep pan or less oil then it would be more relevant. On a topic about windage trays it's really not a great anecdote.
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I think you're focusing on the speaker instead of the message. It's not rocket science to figure out that the crank hitting the oil in the pan will cause resistance. If the topic was about running a deep pan or less oil then it would be more relevant. On a topic about windage trays it's really not a great anecdote.
It's not so much about the crank HITTING the oil, but more about WHIPPING up the oil below the crank, hence the need for windage trays.
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Very true. Churning the oil is never a good thing. That said, a windage tray that sits too close to the crank can actually hold a puddle right in the path of the oil whips coming from the crank which can add friction. That's why a crank scraper is so handy
Professional Motorsports "tech" HI ALL, thanks for the kind remarks.
SURE, I baited/hooked MANY here with the "panless" engine report, a TRUE REPORT !
This test was a REQUIRED test to PROVE to Dick Moroso that HIS Oil Pan/Scraper design was NOT PERFECT.
MANY here will spend 3K dollars on heads/cams/etc. for 20 EXTRA HP, then NO Money on a good windage/scraper tray that would cost LESS THAN $100.00 providing the SAME increase in HP.
Lance
SURE, I baited/hooked MANY here with the "panless" engine report, a TRUE REPORT !
This test was a REQUIRED test to PROVE to Dick Moroso that HIS Oil Pan/Scraper design was NOT PERFECT.
MANY here will spend 3K dollars on heads/cams/etc. for 20 EXTRA HP, then NO Money on a good windage/scraper tray that would cost LESS THAN $100.00 providing the SAME increase in HP.
Lance
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From: Winter Haven FL
HI ALL, thanks for the kind remarks.
SURE, I baited/hooked MANY here with the "panless" engine report, a TRUE REPORT !
This test was a REQUIRED test to PROVE to Dick Moroso that HIS Oil Pan/Scraper design was NOT PERFECT.
MANY here will spend 3K dollars on heads/cams/etc. for 20 EXTRA HP, then NO Money on a good windage/scraper tray that would cost LESS THAN $100.00 providing the SAME increase in HP.
Lance
SURE, I baited/hooked MANY here with the "panless" engine report, a TRUE REPORT !
This test was a REQUIRED test to PROVE to Dick Moroso that HIS Oil Pan/Scraper design was NOT PERFECT.
MANY here will spend 3K dollars on heads/cams/etc. for 20 EXTRA HP, then NO Money on a good windage/scraper tray that would cost LESS THAN $100.00 providing the SAME increase in HP.
Lance
Windage trays are like other performance parts, for some situations it's a must and for others it's unnecessary. It's up to the builder to figure out exactly what's needed based on how the engine is going to be used. The recommendations for a scca road track vette aren't the same recommendations as for a suburban that only drives 5 miles a week to the fishing hole.
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That's a big thing for people to keep in mind. Companies spend thousands advertising in magazines and on tv/internet convincing people that they need high end race parts on their grocery getter. Half the time these companies aren't even doing a good job making the parts they advertise. People then don't have the money left to get the parts they actually need.
Windage trays are like other performance parts, for some situations it's a must and for others it's unnecessary. It's up to the builder to figure out exactly what's needed based on how the engine is going to be used. The recommendations for a scca road track vette aren't the same recommendations as for a suburban that only drives 5 miles a week to the fishing hole.
Windage trays are like other performance parts, for some situations it's a must and for others it's unnecessary. It's up to the builder to figure out exactly what's needed based on how the engine is going to be used. The recommendations for a scca road track vette aren't the same recommendations as for a suburban that only drives 5 miles a week to the fishing hole.
Gm cafe taxes Hi GARY, SURE GM would SAVE MILLIONS when they REDUCE CAFE taxes, TAXES ABOUT FUEL consumption !
THUS, great savings for GM in Emission TAXES
THUS THOSE "bean" counter's RULE, thanks AGAIN.
Lance
THUS, great savings for GM in Emission TAXES
THUS THOSE "bean" counter's RULE, thanks AGAIN.
Lance