Windage Tray: necessary?
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Teching In
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Windage Tray: necessary? I had to go with a Moroso front sump pan on my LS1 in order to clear the steering rack. The pan is pretty low profile and the stock windage tray would not fit so I chose to leave it out. The car is not going to be in performance situations: no track racing, strip pulls or anything like that. Just a leisurely driver with good power and fuel efficiency ('63 Nova Convertible). Does anyone foresee any issues? Anything to look out for? The motor is already in the car and I'm not pulling it back out unless its absolutely necessary.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2015
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Right, I know that's the answer. But does anyone know of anyone that actually suffered ANY damage whatsoever in an LS with no windage tray? There is a TON of theory on this board but I'm not seeing anyone come out and say that damage actually happened. And I'm not talking about a 1000hp track car. Just a regular daily driver LS1 that most likely spends more time at 2000RPM than 4000RPM.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
Right, I know that's the answer. But does anyone know of anyone that actually suffered ANY damage whatsoever in an LS with no windage tray? There is a TON of theory on this board but I'm not seeing anyone come out and say that damage actually happened. And I'm not talking about a 1000hp track car. Just a regular daily driver LS1 that most likely spends more time at 2000RPM than 4000RPM.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
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From: Orlando, Florida
I had to go with a Moroso front sump pan on my LS1 in order to clear the steering rack. The pan is pretty low profile and the stock windage tray would not fit so I chose to leave it out. The car is not going to be in performance situations: no track racing, strip pulls or anything like that. Just a leisurely driver with good power and fuel efficiency ('63 Nova Convertible). Does anyone foresee any issues? Anything to look out for? The motor is already in the car and I'm not pulling it back out unless its absolutely necessary.
If you are working with the oil pan off, there are a number of things i would recommend.
-Kevin
Knowing how GM loves to save money, I'm sure GM wouldn't have put a windage tray in the pan unless GM considered it necessary.
With that said I don't know of anyone that left the Wingate tray out so I don't have first hand knowledge of how that will work out in the long run.
With that said I don't know of anyone that left the Wingate tray out so I don't have first hand knowledge of how that will work out in the long run.
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From: S.F. East bay
Right, I know that's the answer. But does anyone know of anyone that actually suffered ANY damage whatsoever in an LS with no windage tray? There is a TON of theory on this board but I'm not seeing anyone come out and say that damage actually happened. And I'm not talking about a 1000hp track car. Just a regular daily driver LS1 that most likely spends more time at 2000RPM than 4000RPM.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
If there is no one that actually knows, then I'll report back in a year and let you know if my motor blew up. I'm going to guess that everything will be just fine.
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I understand what the windage tray is for, and would try and use it.
but, would it really affect anything without it? I dont think so. Older sbc didnt use a windage tray and didnt have any issues. Why are they any different? Since this is a normal daily type build u should be fine. Drag or road course setupa would definately need a tray. Just my opinion!
but, would it really affect anything without it? I dont think so. Older sbc didnt use a windage tray and didnt have any issues. Why are they any different? Since this is a normal daily type build u should be fine. Drag or road course setupa would definately need a tray. Just my opinion!
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Joined: Nov 2017
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From: S.F. East bay
I understand what the windage tray is for, and would try and use it.
but, would it really affect anything without it? I dont think so. Older sbc didnt use a windage tray and didnt have any issues. Why are they any different? Since this is a normal daily type build u should be fine. Drag or road course setupa would definately need a tray. Just my opinion!
but, would it really affect anything without it? I dont think so. Older sbc didnt use a windage tray and didnt have any issues. Why are they any different? Since this is a normal daily type build u should be fine. Drag or road course setupa would definately need a tray. Just my opinion!
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From: S.F. East bay
Good question. Back in 2012 I asked that very question on here...I don’t remember what thread it was in. I don’t think I started my own for the question.
I raced nascar late models on asphalt for many years, and we never ran windage trays with our sbc’s. They made more power without the trays. These were dry sump engines with really good pumps that actually pulled a vacuum, so maybe that was the difference? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone here ever do back to back testing to see what happens in an ls engine platform, tray vs. no tray.
Would be interesting to see the differences for me.
I raced nascar late models on asphalt for many years, and we never ran windage trays with our sbc’s. They made more power without the trays. These were dry sump engines with really good pumps that actually pulled a vacuum, so maybe that was the difference? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone here ever do back to back testing to see what happens in an ls engine platform, tray vs. no tray.
Would be interesting to see the differences for me.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 661
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From: S.F. East bay
Good question. Back in 2012 I asked that very question on here...I don’t remember what thread it was in. I don’t think I started my own for the question.
I raced nascar late models on asphalt for many years, and we never ran windage trays with our sbc’s. They made more power without the trays. These were dry sump engines with really good pumps that actually pulled a vacuum, so maybe that was the difference? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone here ever do back to back testing to see what happens in an ls engine platform, tray vs. no tray.
Would be interesting to see the differences for me.
I raced nascar late models on asphalt for many years, and we never ran windage trays with our sbc’s. They made more power without the trays. These were dry sump engines with really good pumps that actually pulled a vacuum, so maybe that was the difference? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone here ever do back to back testing to see what happens in an ls engine platform, tray vs. no tray.
Would be interesting to see the differences for me.
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Central Cal.
Compared to the oil level the crank isn't any higher in an LS than the old smallblock. Notice how much shallower the pan on an LS is. And the way an LS winds, it is a good idea to run a windage tray. As was said, if GM could have found a way not to put them in EVERY LS engine, they would have. Use it.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Yeah GM put orings on the oil pumps too....greatest idea ever
I've been driving over 45 years and none of my cars except the ls cars had windage trays. While they certainly have a very good purpose in a engine that revs like the LS I personally don't think its necessary for normal driving. High rev racing YES.
I've been driving over 45 years and none of my cars except the ls cars had windage trays. While they certainly have a very good purpose in a engine that revs like the LS I personally don't think its necessary for normal driving. High rev racing YES.
Last edited by RockinWs6; Apr 4, 2018 at 11:03 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2017
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From: S.F. East bay
If only the original OP was around to let us know what the verdict was.......but yes I do agree with the penny pinching gm theory ,but at the same time it's nice to see and know how bad and cheaply we can string these low buck thrown together lsx builds.........
Viper Engine Tech Hi, I worked with Metalcrafters to create the FIRST Viper Engine, two "A" engine crankcases/cut welded together to make a ten cylinder.
The same was done with the cylinder heads, cut/welded.
This engine NEVER ran, just a good fit into the prototype.
The program was headed by Hank Carlenie from Chrysler.
He had a concern to know if a "H" OR "I" beam rod made more HP for use in the new Viper engine.
He supplied an "A" engine AND requested a VERY DEEP "windowed" Oil Pan be installed allowing a "view" of the internal oil windage with a running engine.
A lot was learned with ANOTHER MYTH proved incorrect.
The engine oil is NOT "thrown" into the Oil Pan, in fact the opposite occurs.
The oil remains attached to the crankshaft, rods, rotating items such as you find in a Tornado.
I called the effect a Salt Water Taffy.
THUS we designed internal crankcase blades in a way to "scrape" oil away from the Tornado with reported HP increase.
We found oil "shedding" was MUCH better with "H" beam rods as RPM was increased AND a change in the sound of the internal crankcase Tornado was noted.
I RACED a Lola333 F5000, a Dry Sump SBC engine, WITH a Scraper Tray that looked like a HD Screen Door when installed into the Oil Pan.
The ONLY car I EVER RACED WITHOUT a Windage Tray was done at the Monterey Historics as I was the Mechanic, the Ride Along Mechanic, required to grease the Rod Bearings 1/2 way around the track, twice each circuit.
This car had NO Oil Pan !
Lance
The same was done with the cylinder heads, cut/welded.
This engine NEVER ran, just a good fit into the prototype.
The program was headed by Hank Carlenie from Chrysler.
He had a concern to know if a "H" OR "I" beam rod made more HP for use in the new Viper engine.
He supplied an "A" engine AND requested a VERY DEEP "windowed" Oil Pan be installed allowing a "view" of the internal oil windage with a running engine.
A lot was learned with ANOTHER MYTH proved incorrect.
The engine oil is NOT "thrown" into the Oil Pan, in fact the opposite occurs.
The oil remains attached to the crankshaft, rods, rotating items such as you find in a Tornado.
I called the effect a Salt Water Taffy.
THUS we designed internal crankcase blades in a way to "scrape" oil away from the Tornado with reported HP increase.
We found oil "shedding" was MUCH better with "H" beam rods as RPM was increased AND a change in the sound of the internal crankcase Tornado was noted.
I RACED a Lola333 F5000, a Dry Sump SBC engine, WITH a Scraper Tray that looked like a HD Screen Door when installed into the Oil Pan.
The ONLY car I EVER RACED WITHOUT a Windage Tray was done at the Monterey Historics as I was the Mechanic, the Ride Along Mechanic, required to grease the Rod Bearings 1/2 way around the track, twice each circuit.
This car had NO Oil Pan !
Lance
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From: Monroe,NY
I helped a friend put a new oil pan on his 383 small block. When we took the old pan off we found out the windage tray broke off and there was a piece of the windage tray the size of a half dollar sitting at the bottom of the pan. Don't know how long it was like that but it looked like a long time. He never had any problems and the engine and it still runs like a top today. I would still run a windage tray if it was me but i am sure you will be fine.
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Joined: Nov 2017
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From: S.F. East bay
I helped a friend put a new oil pan on his 383 small block. When we took the old pan off we found out the windage tray broke off and there was a piece of the windage tray the size of a half dollar sitting at the bottom of the pan. Don't know how long it was like that but it looked like a long time. He never had any problems and the engine and it still runs like a top today. I would still run a windage tray if it was me but i am sure you will be fine.
..I think you'll be fine too.....anybody else wanna agree or disagree.......