Planning heads and cam
12-22-2016, 07:56 AM
#42
Wow, the more I look at the Fast 90 or 92, the more expensive it gets. Intake, TB, bigger MAF, bigger LID. 
Remember, I started with "considering a cam", LOL. Now its cam, pushrods, lifters, oil pump, ported heads, dual valve springs, injectors and so on. I can't decide whether to lay down or grab an brew. 
Remember, I started with "considering a cam", LOL. Now its cam, pushrods, lifters, oil pump, ported heads, dual valve springs, injectors and so on. I can't decide whether to lay down or grab an brew.
12-22-2016, 08:27 AM
#43
Aren't there some downfalls of doing SD tune if you live in areas with a lot of temperature fluctuation? I am curious, maybe it will help OP decide also.
Im almost thinking if there are no downfalls i may go this route also. I am currently looking to buy an 85mm MAF.
Im almost thinking if there are no downfalls i may go this route also. I am currently looking to buy an 85mm MAF.
12-22-2016, 09:09 AM
#44
not as bad as you think...I tuned my car in 65 degree weather. my fuel trims stay pretty close +/-20degrees. When it gets colder then 40 it starts to run a tad rich, when hotter then 90 it runs a tad lean, but honestly I do not really care to drive my car when its colder then that...same for goes when its 90+. For a daily driver that will get driven in all types of weather a maf would be best no doubt.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 12-22-2016 at 09:16 AM.
12-22-2016, 09:11 AM
#45
Thanks for the suggestion Josh and the confirmation suggestions. Nice engine bay photo King. I've seen lids with the hump in the middle but didn't realize that was for the larger TB hose.
I can probably handle the WARR TB. Looks like a nice part. I'll do some research about SD. I've come across the term over the past year but never dug into it or why its used.
I can probably handle the WARR TB. Looks like a nice part. I'll do some research about SD. I've come across the term over the past year but never dug into it or why its used.
12-22-2016, 09:42 AM
#46
01SSReda4, your thread really helps me keep my expectations in line doing while considering heads/cam. I was really hoping that the heads/cam would take me from 12.0 to low 11's. In reality, I suspect I'll be doing good to get 11.50's with the mid sized cam I'm considering(224/228 .605). I did buy another pair of 10 spokes with Hoosier DOT's on it, so I won't have to fight with traction.
I'm also keeping my eye out for a deal on a Fast 90 or 92. As bad as I hate to part with more money, it makes sense to swap it while I'm there before the tune. I can port it myself.
For heads and cam, I've about decided to buy the heads and cam from the same place at the same time. I feel that buying them together will help the vendor match things up for me(CC, pushrods).
So many options with heads/cam. Still considering:
AI 226's with 224/228 .605
AI 226's with 230.238
TSP PRC 225's with 228R
TSP stg 1 with 228R
Progress since starting this thread (updated in 1st post):
- Racetronix kit installed (still need to check PSI but runs great)
- purchased Morel 5315 lifters
- purchased GTP injectors
I'm also keeping my eye out for a deal on a Fast 90 or 92. As bad as I hate to part with more money, it makes sense to swap it while I'm there before the tune. I can port it myself.
For heads and cam, I've about decided to buy the heads and cam from the same place at the same time. I feel that buying them together will help the vendor match things up for me(CC, pushrods).
So many options with heads/cam. Still considering:
AI 226's with 224/228 .605
AI 226's with 230.238
TSP PRC 225's with 228R
TSP stg 1 with 228R
Progress since starting this thread (updated in 1st post):
- Racetronix kit installed (still need to check PSI but runs great)
- purchased Morel 5315 lifters
- purchased GTP injectors
12-22-2016, 10:31 AM
#48
not as bad as you think...I tuned my car in 65 degree weather. my fuel trims stay pretty close +/-20degrees. When it gets colder then 40 it starts to run a tad rich, when hotter then 90 it runs a tad lean, but honestly I do not really care to drive my car when its colder then that...same for goes when its 90+. For a daily driver that will get driven in all types of weather a maf would be best no doubt.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
Good info on this thread!
12-22-2016, 11:03 AM
#49
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Originally Posted by kinglt-1
not as bad as you think...I tuned my car in 65 degree weather. my fuel trims stay pretty close +/-20degrees. When it gets colder then 40 it starts to run a tad rich, when hotter then 90 it runs a tad lean, but honestly I do not really care to drive my car when its colder then that...same for goes when its 90+. For a daily driver that will get driven in all types of weather a maf would be best no doubt.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
I would stick with Nick Williams on the TB. I bought my 4" x 7" silicon hose from intakehoses.com. I went with the one that has the humps in the middle that allows it make the upward angle easier to the 98mm lid. I posted a pic for example.
12-22-2016, 01:33 PM
#52
Current mods: SSRA, lid, ported TB, LS6 intake, EGR delete, 1 7/8" LT's, 2.5" Hooker BH true duals, SS3600, 3:23's, Racetronix RFPK-001
Car: 3400lbs of 2000 Camaro SS with 194K, 20k on 4L60E, SFC's, LCA's w/ relos. I would like for the car to be able to be a daily driver.
My priorities: 1) reliability & drivability. 2) low 11 E/T's (currently 12.0 @112), 3) not put too much strain on my 194K bottom end. 4) cost
Car: 3400lbs of 2000 Camaro SS with 194K, 20k on 4L60E, SFC's, LCA's w/ relos. I would like for the car to be able to be a daily driver.
My priorities: 1) reliability & drivability. 2) low 11 E/T's (currently 12.0 @112), 3) not put too much strain on my 194K bottom end. 4) cost
Nothing against the TSP stg1/228r combination, I just prefer Phil's work and personally like the 224/228 cam Phil recommended more than the 228r.
I have found that single pattern cams do better with true dual exhaust with a scavenge pipe, which you already have, so the 228r cam will probably perform very well with your setup if you choose to go with the TSP stg1/228r.
I just personally think that the 224/228 cam will drive better all around. And I think the 224/228 cam would respond better later on if/when you upgrade your intake to something like a fast 92/92.
It is just my opinion, but I am no expert.
I have found that single pattern cams do better with true dual exhaust with a scavenge pipe, which you already have, so the 228r cam will probably perform very well with your setup if you choose to go with the TSP stg1/228r.
I just personally think that the 224/228 cam will drive better all around. And I think the 224/228 cam would respond better later on if/when you upgrade your intake to something like a fast 92/92.
It is just my opinion, but I am no expert.
I would go AI 226, and a ~226/230 from CamMotion or EPS. Very nice torque curve for the power level.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...o-results.html
I just helped a friend swap a CamMotion 227/231 cam (very close to the cam above) in his C5. Love the power band.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...o-results.html
I just helped a friend swap a CamMotion 227/231 cam (very close to the cam above) in his C5. Love the power band.
IMO there is very little downside in going from a 224/228 to some in the (226-228)/(230-232) range. Loved my old F11 (228/230) TEA stg 2 5.3 build and my friends 227/231 CamMotion. My current build is in progress, WCCH/Edelbrock 215s (came with the car), SpartanLSX (CamMotion) 232/236 112+2 (612/612), Fast90. We will see what it turns.
Selling as many camshafts as we do, we get tons of feedback from our customers. For LS1s, our daily driver customers just love the Titan IV LS1 cam 227/232 113+4: http://store.cammotion.com/the-titan4
It has a great balance of performance and drivability. It is right in the "sweet spot". This camshaft is great with 2800-3500 stall converters and moderate street gearing.
12-22-2016, 02:05 PM
#53
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 81 Likes
on
72 Posts
Nah dude, I dont hate on combos that work well. But I know from experience his car is highly unlikely to run "mid 10s" as you so suggested. I'm aware that it can be done, I dont consider that feat easy and it damn sure aint the norm....ive watched way too many cars at the strip.
12-22-2016, 03:30 PM
#54
IMO there is very little downside in going from a 224/228 to some in the (226-228)/(230-232) range. Loved my old F11 (228/230) TEA stg 2 5.3 build and my friends 227/231 CamMotion. My F11 turned 436rwhp/415rwtq on a stock ls6 intake, and polished factory TB. I was on Kooks 1 3/4 no cats, 3" to the X and 2.5 after on a C5.
Selling as many camshafts as we do, we get tons of feedback from our customers. For LS1s, our daily driver customers just love the Titan IV LS1 cam 227/232 113+4: http://store.cammotion.com/the-titan4
It has a great balance of performance and drivability. It is right in the "sweet spot". This camshaft is great with 2800-3500 stall converters and moderate street gearing.
It has a great balance of performance and drivability. It is right in the "sweet spot". This camshaft is great with 2800-3500 stall converters and moderate street gearing.
Would I be OK with the 3:23 gears that I have (Yank 3600)?
12-22-2016, 03:47 PM
#55
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 81 Likes
on
72 Posts
Just as an fyi I'm running an essentially older version of the titan 4 and its a nice overall cam, tons of midrange power and pulls clean to my 6750 shift.
12-23-2016, 02:47 PM
#58
Thanks for the advise man.
That has been my experience too. If I was in a hurry, it might be a bit frustrating, but I'm in no hurry at all and I get plenty of time to consider things and research his suggestions.
I'm now leaning toward the larger cam that Phil suggested, the Titan IV that you suggested or TSP 228r. Doesn't the "+4" in 113+4 shift the torque curve down just a bit?
Would I be OK with the 3:23 gears that I have (Yank 3600)?
That has been my experience too. If I was in a hurry, it might be a bit frustrating, but I'm in no hurry at all and I get plenty of time to consider things and research his suggestions.
I'm now leaning toward the larger cam that Phil suggested, the Titan IV that you suggested or TSP 228r. Doesn't the "+4" in 113+4 shift the torque curve down just a bit?
Would I be OK with the 3:23 gears that I have (Yank 3600)?
If you want to get deeper into the valve events:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...n-part-ii.html
The topic above is a good read even if much of it goes over your head to get a feel why some cams are designed for certain applications.
12-26-2016, 10:15 AM
#60
In regards to the "+4", this is often referred to as 4 degrees of "advance" in "ground in" to the camshaft. This can be misleading. "Advancing" a camshaft's timing usually does indeed result in shifting the powerband of a given engine lower in the RPM range. So, the associated effect you would be referring to is correct. But, that is not really what the +4 is about. This "+4 degrees of advance" terminology is really just a mathematical expression of the relationship between the intake and exhaust lobe centers.
Here are some examples:
Have a look at these two Cam-Timer results. Notice the areas circled in red. The camshaft specs on the left represent a 225 degrees at .050" duration single pattern camshaft with a 110 degree lobe separation angle. If you notice, this camshaft has an advance figure of "0". As you can see in this scenario, the intake lobe is centered on a 110 degree after top dead center "centerline" and the exhaust is centered on a 110 degree before top dead center "centerline".
Now look at the Cam-Timer results on the right. It has the same 225 degrees of duration at .050" and the same 110 degree lobe separation angle, but this camshaft shows 2 degrees of "advance". Now notice that the intake lobe centerline is 2 degrees earlier at 108 degrees after top dead center and the exhaust is also 2 degrees earlier at 112 before top dead center. The ICL lobe center gets smaller with advance because it is after top dead center and the exhaust centerline number gets bigger with advance because it is before top dead center.
Determining these lobe centers is a tool for the camshaft grinder/manufacturer. It tells them where to center a given lobe on a camshaft they are making to get the proper valve timing. So those figures are very important to the person making the camshaft, but maybe not the best thing to look at for someone trying to understand how the camshaft will behave/perform in a given engine.
If you want a more accurate predictor of how a camshaft will behave in a given engine, I recommend engine builders look at the 4 valve events and overlap:
Intake Valve Open (IVO)
Intake Valve Close (IVC)
Exhaust Valve Open (EVO)
Exhaust Valve Close (EVC)
Have a look at the picture below and note the items circled in green. This will show you these valve events at .050" of lifter lift. These events can also be evaluated at different points of lift such as .006" and .200" as well to gain even more insight. Getting familiar with these valve events is a much more accurate way to understand and predict a camshafts effect on performance than lobe separation angle and lobe centers which are really just numbers used by camshaft grinders during the manufacturing/machining process.
