MS4 Cam
It's about the combination, I ran a TSP 5.3 headed car with a 228 cam and got my *** absolutely handed to me, granted I was on stock heads and **** tires, but still my old LS6 with a 230/232 ran it's *** off and door to door wth some fast local Houston cars. I'm a firm believer of a smaller cam and good set of heads.
How about a littke big cam inspiration. Ported 243's and big cams from 10 years ago running with the best of todays heads and cams.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...MWvwqajcC309wA
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=...QDK70Af8fvMwDg
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...MWvwqajcC309wA
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=...QDK70Af8fvMwDg
No one is saying they don't work, they just need way more supporting mods with it, we all know the times the old T-Rex cam cars put up, but look at the mods they have with them like a 9 inch, 4.56 gears, slicks, flycuts, FAST and weight reduction. I'm pretty sure the MS4 still holds the stock bottom end record as well, so it does work, it's just if you're going to drive your car anywhere else besides a quarter of a mile at a time, there are other, better choices out there with a set of heads that can accomplish the same thing.
No one is saying they don't work, they just need way more supporting mods with it, we all know the times the old T-Rex cam cars put up, but look at the mods they have with them like a 9 inch, 4.56 gears, slicks, flycuts, FAST and weight reduction. I'm pretty sure the MS4 still holds the stock bottom end record as well, so it does work, it's just if you're going to drive your car anywhere else besides a quarter of a mile at a time, there are other, better choices out there with a set of heads that can accomplish the same thing.
Clearly all that stuff is needed anytime you add power to just about any car. Pretty weak argument you presented there. And if you think the 410 or 456 gears give you a little bit of an argument there is plenty of people still getting well over 20mpg with them. On this very forum a 3600-4000 stall is usually recomended for a stock motor and thats all thats needed to make a big cam shine also.
Now I'm confussed? So your saying a better intake, exhaust, rear end and sticky tires isn't recomended with smaller heads and cam package?
Clearly all that stuff is needed anytime you add power to just about any car. Pretty weak argument you presented there. And if you think the 410 or 456 gears give you a little bit of an argument there is plenty of people still getting well over 20mpg with them. On this very forum a 3600-4000 stall is usually recomended for a stock motor and thats all thats needed to make a big cam shine also.
Clearly all that stuff is needed anytime you add power to just about any car. Pretty weak argument you presented there. And if you think the 410 or 456 gears give you a little bit of an argument there is plenty of people still getting well over 20mpg with them. On this very forum a 3600-4000 stall is usually recomended for a stock motor and thats all thats needed to make a big cam shine also.
If you want a great streetable cam, the TSP Torquer V2 232/234 .600/.600 on 112 LSA is awesome. Even the 233/239 .600/.600 on a 112 LSA. The MS3 is on the verge for a streeable cam for a smaller displacement motor.
I have not been around the MS4, I personally have not been around cams over .600 lift for a street car, or really see the need for anything over .600 for relatively stock heads. Also, staying under .600 helps with valve train durability.
I have not been around the MS4, I personally have not been around cams over .600 lift for a street car, or really see the need for anything over .600 for relatively stock heads. Also, staying under .600 helps with valve train durability.
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Some people are simply more tolerant of large cams then others and that is fine. I don't care how good the tune is, you can only do so much with a cam that has 20+ degrees of overlap. They are so inefficient around idle and have lots of reversion that there will always be some negative effects on how it drives. If you have the proper supporting mods they can be tolerable for a weekend street car but it's something I would ever recommend for somebody that wants a driver. I think most would agree with this.
Drivability is in the eye of the beholder.
9 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 143
Likes: 2
This is so true. I'm running a btr stage 4 in a sbe ls1. Car idle is violent, runs great, even better on the 200 hit. I would drive this everyday if I didn't need a truck for work, but I'm sure most would disagree with dd'ing this cam.
Drivability is in the eye of the beholder.
Drivability is in the eye of the beholder.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 436
Likes: 29
From: Michigan
I have never herd the term "max effort cam" before what do you guys mean when you say that? I ran a pretty big cam in my 408 windsor build so im tolerant of big cams and dont mind adding all the supporting mods as im not worried about spending the money when it comes to buying all the right things for my car
Max effort means it's among the cams designed to push the limits of a stock bottom end LS1.
It's basically as big as you can go before flycutting is required (and I've seen some instances where users with stock engines found places the valves had kissed pistons). The faster guys I've seen running them are turning 7000+ rpm even though the cam peaks earlier.
Combination of marketing to be the biggest and baddest available and also useful for those who were seeking stock bottom end records.
They work well for their purpose if you build the rest of the car to suit them.
It's basically as big as you can go before flycutting is required (and I've seen some instances where users with stock engines found places the valves had kissed pistons). The faster guys I've seen running them are turning 7000+ rpm even though the cam peaks earlier.
Combination of marketing to be the biggest and baddest available and also useful for those who were seeking stock bottom end records.
They work well for their purpose if you build the rest of the car to suit them.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 436
Likes: 29
From: Michigan
Max effort means it's among the cams designed to push the limits of a stock bottom end LS1.
It's basically as big as you can go before flycutting is required (and I've seen some instances where users with stock engines found places the valves had kissed pistons). The faster guys I've seen running them are turning 7000+ rpm even though the cam peaks earlier.
Combination of marketing to be the biggest and baddest available and also useful for those who were seeking stock bottom end records.
They work well for their purpose if you build the rest of the car to suit them.
It's basically as big as you can go before flycutting is required (and I've seen some instances where users with stock engines found places the valves had kissed pistons). The faster guys I've seen running them are turning 7000+ rpm even though the cam peaks earlier.
Combination of marketing to be the biggest and baddest available and also useful for those who were seeking stock bottom end records.
They work well for their purpose if you build the rest of the car to suit them.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 436
Likes: 29
From: Michigan
Take a look at these two threads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...orted-msd.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-fast102.html
Some good info in both.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...orted-msd.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-fast102.html
Some good info in both.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 436
Likes: 29
From: Michigan
That was a mis type on my end I ment to say I dont want to spin the bottom end far past 6500 but on texas speed website they dont go over the rpm operating range but from the dyno runs I have seen of builds that have the ms4 in it the cam is making peak HP at 6,400rpm putting me in the rpm range I feel comfortable being in, what are the rpm limitations of the stock lower end
Peak could be around 6400 but the fast cars using that cam tend be shifted at 7,000-7,200.
Limits? Who knows. Some fail stock and some live at 7,400.
My previous engine was a 1998 LS1 and I spun it to 6,800 every time I drove it. Still perfect when pulled to swap for the LS2.
Limits? Who knows. Some fail stock and some live at 7,400.
My previous engine was a 1998 LS1 and I spun it to 6,800 every time I drove it. Still perfect when pulled to swap for the LS2.