A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

Pretty certain that the ONLY rockers that work on the PRC heads are the factory ones.
Texas Speed can verify but it has to do with the 12 degree valve angle.
Also from what I've seen, that factory rocker tip does not seem to like being forced past the .600" lift point. It simply runs out of travel and "SCRUBS" which IIRC that V2 has .648" intake and could have been the reason for the fucked up tips and rocker trunions as well

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

These are Smith Brothers Brand, don't know if Straub would deal with this since they are different brands. They may be both made by the same company but don't know for sure, but they are identical. They are currently still installed in the old rocker arms. I replaced the rocker arms when I installed the CHE bushings. There have been a few people with Straub trunnions wearing out around 20-30k miles. As you can tell by the pictures, I take care of the engine and use quality full synthetic oil and change it every 5-6,000 miles. I also used new Rocker Arm Pedestals when I installed the Rocker Arms with the Smith Brothers Trunnions along with ARP studs torqued to spec. Rockers also got a good Spray of Comps Aerosol Spray Valvetrain Lube when installed. Only other thing I can think of is these bushings were out of round, the trunnions fit to tight in the bushings and didn't have enough clearance for oil or something else. I have had the Smith Brothers Bronze Bushing Trunnions installed for about 2 or so years now and they had just under 20k miles before removing.

A few of them have excessive play in them, and most do not rotate smoothly at all. Almost need to put a screwdriver in the hole to spin the trunnions in the rocker arm on 2 of them, and few are working perfectly. I know for a fact that it was/is not an oiling issue, they were covered in oil when I removed and also watched oil **** out the pushrod hole and run down the rocker arms while running multiple times. The engine would start making a very faint tick noise every few thousand miles off and on since they were installed. I have inspected everything a few times with the valve covers off while running and they were getting plenty of oil. At that time I thought it may have been the Lifters making the normal "LS Tick". I finally started removing things to diagnose the noise. I removed them and inspected them to find out it was the trunnions causing the noise and replaced with CHE.

The Trunnons was installed by a local LS performance Shop who has had experience with them and uses them on all their builds over roller bearings. So I am assuming they were installed correctly.

I currently have around 2,000 miles and the CHE without issue or noise.

deelong4002

iTrader: (8)

I believe you are referring to the V3. The V2 only has .600 lift on both the intake and exhaust.

Also, i just called Texas speed, and he was not aware of any issues with the yella terra? He said there are issues with their rectangle port LS3 heads, because they build the pedestal into the head, but because the 225 heads are designed to accept the stock pedestal, and the yella terras do not need the pedestal at all, he was pretty sure there was no issue, i would just discard it. Can you point me to a post or somewhere that you heard this?

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

TSP has completely changed up their cam and lobe designs so before you quote any older torquer, 224r, ms3, tsunami specs etc, check their website. They no longer use comps lobes or cams.
It will help with any confusion and old info out there!

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Id have to say more actual proof besides just pictures are due from 07nbs. The bronze kits have been out since roughly jan or feb 2016 so that's not even a yr and a half.
They do wear of course and that's what Straub even says, but such rapid wear from only 1 person on here (even though this is a microcosm of the world and ls world even) seems odd.
Ive seen the issues with....rev 1 we will call it, where the lock ring groove did push some bronze material out upon assembly by a few people, but even that did not create excessive or extreme wear in those cases.
Mobil1 isnt the be all end all oil either. Too many other factors would effect that also imo.

Old Geezer

iTrader: (3)

I just installed a set of the newest Straub units. Saw no rough edges, no "fuzz" created, no rough motion. Used the lube that was included.
I have seen several other installs, no issues.

" Too many other factors would effect that also imo."
Such as coil bind, float the valves, dirty engine assy, nasty /cheap oil and filters, overdue oil changes.
All these, and others, come into the picture.
Furthermore...
07NBSChevy those Smith Brother kits started shipping in February of 2016, that’s only 17 months ago. They didn’t exist 2 or 3 years ago.

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

yeah my buddies is an LS3 so that makes sense then....thought it was all PRC heads...........sorry for the confusion

Jontall

Please post pictures of the failed Smith Bros bronze bushed rockers (take them apart), because I'm having a hard time believing your story.

DietCoke

iTrader: (18)

I've had CHE trunions get notchy before, had to re-do two of them after a few thousand miles back in 2011. They're still nice pieces - nothing out of the ordinary in a high strung race motor.

ADM

The ones that were hard to rotate and needed a screw driver were incorrectly assembled. The bronze bushing was pushed too far into the rocker arm housing causing them to chafe with the trunion on the inner face.

My friend assembled a kit and had the same problem. When I assembled mine I also found a few rocker arms with the same issue. Upon close inspection I discovered this and corrected the issue. Luckily my friend had not finished his engine build yet so we redid the ones that were hard to rotate and they all rotate smoothly now.

Mine have been on the car for over 6000 miles running 10w40 Liqui-Moly synthetic oil with a TSP Torquer V2 (new grind). The valvetrain is dead quiet, not a squeak. And I beat the crap out of my car with 6800rpm shifts on a daily basis (T56 car). Temperatures have reached 52°C here and I still daily drive the car. With the oil struggling to stay cool in this crazy summer heat, I have yet to hear any valvetrain noise.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

I can assure you the bushing are not pressed in to far, they are level with the outside of the rocker arm. I will get a video with every rocker arm assembled, and will show how they spin, and some that will hardly move before I diss-assemble them.

I honestly think they were out of round, or were not pressed in level with the rocker arm by the company who installed them.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

I do not see what is so hard to believe.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

I have no idea were you came up with 3 years bud. I said around 2 years or so. I got them right when smith brothers started manufacturing them.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't you say the rocker should pivot downwards? I did notice on some of them the C-Clip has notched a grove into the bushing itself, but that doesn't seem to be the reason it is causing them to be stiff.

Now, I have used 5 kits from Smith Brothers on customer engines, and as far as I know this is the only issue I have experienced.

Also, you can see by my previously posted pictures, there engine is clean and well taken care of. The entire engine is practically new, and has around 28k miles on it. Only use good quality oil and change every 5-6k miles. I do not think this is an issue with oiling since everything appears to be clean and are oil soaked. Also, I am running CHE and have been for about 2k miles without any issues.

the trunnions on mine are the smooth ones without the dimples in them.

Using PAC-1218 Valve Springs
.553/.553 lift
6200 rpm shift points
Nothing crazy from an LS engine. All specs are in sig.
Most of the issues where on the passenger side intakes, and 2 exhaust. I think 2 were on the driver side that were a tad notchy.

what is the best way to upload a video to here?

Jontall

These pictures show nothing except perhaps installer error. My Straub trunnions have been working great since day one with zero problems. Installer error does not mean the product failed, it just means that the installer failed to do the job correctly and so-far, you are the second person with problems; both installer error.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

How can you say installer error without proof? You say that without explaining yourself, just because yours work does not mean all will last 100k miles. I have installed 6 of these kits total, plus countless Comps. I have worked on maybe 150 LS engines, rebuilt about half of those, and never failed to install a rocker arm properly. The other 5 sets I installed seem to be working just fine. I am not saying anything bad about Smith Brothers or Straubs if thats what you are thinking, I didn't make a big deal out of this, I just said the failed after 20k miles and people wanted to know why. I have had Comps last 50-60k miles before failure, and had them fail after 5-8k miles due to heavy Trunnion wear, we also install new pedestals on higher mileage engines. Most of my engine builds I do are stock with minor upgrades such as oil pump and valve springs and such. We are not a performance shop but will dive into custom turbo setups and what not depending on what the customer wants to do.

We always coat the rockers in an assembly lube during install, Smith Brothers does not provide any lube with their kits, or didnt with the kits we used. I have never actually used "Straubs" kits and do not know if they are the same kits as Smith Brothers.

The bushings were pressed in flush with the rocker arm surface, installing them onto the pedestals is pretty simple. I may not have been the one to install the bushings/trunnions, which was done by a local LS Performance shop who inspects and cleans the rocker arms before bearing/bushing install, and they were inspected prior to install.

Like I said, if the shop installed the bushings crocked, then so be it, it was installer error. But I do not see how they would of happened to about 8 out of 16, while 3 have excess play, and 5 are just fine.

ADM

Look at the 4th picture you posted, the brass bushing is not flush but slightly in. Needs to be pressed back out a tiny bit and it should spin freely afterwards.

The CHE kit brass bushings have a shoulder to control their installation depth. That is not worth the extra cost to me, as that can be controlled during assembly. It does however reduce the possibility of installation error, but at a cost.

I wouldn't call anyone incompetent, we are human and we all make mistakes. We are all here to share our experiences and knowledge to learn from each other.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

It must be the angle of the picture. Every bushing is perfectly flush with the outside of the rocker, I have verified this with a straightedge. There is also clearance between the inside of the Trunnion to the inside of the bushings. I am unable to measure this but prior to install all trunnions had side to side play. You can also see on this picture the clearance there is between the C-Clip and the bearing, all rocker arms have this same clearance. So the bushings pressing against the side of the trunnion would not be the issue, unless the rocker arm stays to one side and does not float in the middle. Also, the trunnions that are hard to spin, I can still move the trunnion side to side with little effort.

The CHE kit also has oil grooves cut into the bushings and trunnions, as well as the bushings are "floating" and are able to spin freely with the trunnion or rocker arm. I have read this has been working out well, but time will tell.

I talked to the shop who does our installs on these and they would like to inspect them. So I will have them sent out and they will dissassemble on measure and what not. I will also break the stiffest one down before I send it off to take pictures of wear. I do not suspect wear but you never know.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

I just got off the phone with smith brothers and told them the issue. They said they have ran into this issue two or three times with their early designs were "grit" collects under the bushings between the bushings and trunnions causing them to be stiff to spin. Their new design has an oil grove and notch cut into the trunnion in the middle of were the bearing rides to aid in better oil flow to prevent any build up. They also recommended to dissassemble them, inspect for abnormal wear, and give a light scuff with a finer scotch brite pad on the inside of the bushings and reinstall. They also said replacement bushings and parts are available through them or BTR if anything needs to be replaced.

deelong4002

iTrader: (8)

Thanks alot man, this really helped me set the valvetrain up. Very straight forward.

Got my PRC heads set in place and snugged up. Ran out of time to torque everything, so i'll finish that up today, check my pushrod length, then it should be all downhill from there.

Really want to get this thing back together. I hate to have it sit during the nicest time of the year.

Then i finally have a reason to learn how to tune with HP tuners and my wide band, which I've had for a year now, but no reason to really learn since the car was already tuned.