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Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam

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Old 07-11-2017, 08:02 AM
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Default Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam

About two years ago and roughly 5k miles, i installed a Torquer V2 in my 2000 Camaro with 90k miles. At the same time, the rocker were upgraded with Comp Trunions, Pushrod length measured with a comp measurement tool, PRC EHT .675 springs installed. I also did a timing set and oil pump at the same time, all brand new. Lifters were stock LS1.

The valvetrain has always been noisier than i'd like (I was told that's a characteristic of these aluminum motors), but in the last 1k miles or so it was ticking enough that i pulled the rocker arms off to inspect. I found two chewed up intake valve tips on cylinders 6 and 8.

Yesterday I pulled the head off, and to my delight found no abnormal wear on the cam or lifters. I was really concerned I had dropped a lifter or something, and maybe had a destroyed camshaft and/or lifter, but it seems that I've avoided that.

However, I'm still wondering what may have caused the damage. This was my first time doing a cam install on a car. I took my time, thought i did everything correctly, but i'm wondering if i didn't set the pre-load correctly on those two valves. My other thought was that this particular spring was just too stiff for the stock valves, with 90k miles. I'm a fairly astute hobby mechanic, but by no means an expert. Just trying to learn from this.

I'm still deciding whether I want to just replace those two valves and rocker arms, or if i want to do aftermarket heads. I'm leaning toward new heads, since I've already had to get this far to remove the bad valves.

Below are some pictures of the #6, which is the worst of the two. The #8 is scuffed in a similar fashion, but not as bad. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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Old 07-11-2017, 11:33 AM
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This may not have anything to do with the issues with the rocker tips but I have heard that the comp trunnion kits are wearing out prematurely. I would pull a few c-clips and check that out as well.
Old 07-11-2017, 11:58 AM
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Normally an issue like that is from improper oiling or a stuck valve/valve not spinning properly. How does the seat and face of valve look? Does the valve look bent? Does it turn easy in the guide? How do the seats and under side of retainer look?
Old 07-11-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisingermany
This may not have anything to do with the issues with the rocker tips but I have heard that the comp trunnion kits are wearing out prematurely. I would pull a few c-clips and check that out as well.
Well that's fantastic. Thanks for the heads up.
Old 07-11-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisingermany
This may not have anything to do with the issues with the rocker tips but I have heard that the comp trunnion kits are wearing out prematurely. I would pull a few c-clips and check that out as well.
Well, I'm not sure that this caused the issue, but damned if they aren't tore up. Probably about .005 of material removed already from mine. Guess I'll add some **** to the pile of crap i need to buy. Do you happen to know if anyone has had any luck getting money back from Comp? It's almost like they didn't do any validation testing at all, if parts are going to hell 5k miles later. Pretty shitty for such a huge company. I work for a giant truck accessories company as an engineer, and we spend millions to validate products.

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Old 07-11-2017, 10:00 PM
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Probably won't get any money back from comp but I would go with the Straub trunions fwiw.
Old 07-12-2017, 02:16 AM
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COMP trunnions are junk and COMP will do nothing for you. The metal from the trunnions probably got between the valve tip and rocker arm tip which did the damage. Try to inspect everything that you can because those trunnions puked metal all-over your engine's internals (the same thing happened to me with COMP trunnions). Buy Straub Trunnions.
Old 07-12-2017, 02:43 AM
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I would get the CHE Bronze bushing kit from TSP. Only a tad more than the others and probably the best kit out there. I have had Comp's (Failed after 6k miles), and Smith Brothers (Identical to Straub and finally kicked the bucket and wore out after 20k miles).

What is the lift on your cam?
Was it just the 2 valves that had wear, if so it may have been an oiling issue like mentioned.

Here are my CHE bushings that I installed last week. I also bought new Rocker Arms from the dealer since they were cheap in my opinion ($8 each). They were super simple to install and the bronze bushings themselves are not pressed in, they just slide in and are a very precise fit. The hardest part of the whole job was removing the Stock OEM Trunnions. They have the least amount of play compared to my Comps and Smith Brothers when new.

*I can not figure out why every time a upload a picture it turns it upside down or turns it 90 degrees*
Attached Thumbnails Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam-20170702_233508.jpg   Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam-20170703_101117.jpg   Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam-20170705_004449.jpg   Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam-20170705_230525.jpg   Valve Tip Damage after 5k miles with aftermarket cam-20170705_233202.jpg  


Last edited by 07NBSChevy; 07-14-2017 at 08:46 AM.
Old 07-12-2017, 06:34 AM
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IMO, rather than new trunnions on stock rockers, I think I would consider an aftermarket like Yella Terra. With the lift you are running you can see how close to the tip of the rocker you were pushing the valve so the rocker was really scrubbing. If you go back to the stock rockers, you really need to verify the wipe and adjust the rocker height to bring the contact pattern more to the center of the rocker and valve stem (many skip this step). Likely the rocker height will need to be reduced, not shimmed so you may want to consider an aftermarket steel stand that can be machined. You can check this on your current setup on a workbench if you have a good rocker, dial indicator and check springs. Then work from there.
Old 07-12-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
IMO, rather than new trunnions on stock rockers, I think I would consider an aftermarket like Yella Terra. With the lift you are running you can see how close to the tip of the rocker you were pushing the valve so the rocker was really scrubbing. If you go back to the stock rockers, you really need to verify the wipe and adjust the rocker height to bring the contact pattern more to the center of the rocker and valve stem (many skip this step). Likely the rocker height will need to be reduced, not shimmed so you may want to consider an aftermarket steel stand that can be machined. You can check this on your current setup on a workbench if you have a good rocker, dial indicator and check springs. Then work from there.
Thanks for the help. I will definitely do this, as i didn't before, i believe it may be my issue. Again, this was my first time setting up a valvetrain, and i guess i'll write all this off as a learning experience.

I've ordered a couple new rockers, and the Straub bronze bushing/trunion kit as a replacement for the Comp paper weights I have now. I'm also planning to put a set of PRC 225 heads on it, since i'm already half way there anyway. Wasn't really looking to put much money in the car this year, but I might as well turn all of this into a positive lol.
Old 07-12-2017, 11:46 AM
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I just put the straub kit in last weekend along with new springs and pushrods... the Straub stuff was nice with the bronze bushing and oil passages. That wear on your comp kit is insane!!
Old 07-12-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 07NBSChevy
I would get the CHE Bronze bushing kit from TSP. Only a tad more than the others and probably the best kit out there. I have had Comp's (Failed after 6k miles), and Smith Brothers (Identical to Straub and finally kicked the bucket and wore out after 20k miles).

What is the lift on your cam?
Was it just the 2 valves that had wear, if so it may have been an oiling issue like mentioned.

Here are my CHE bushings that I installed last week. I also bought new Rocker Arms from the dealer since they were cheap in my opinion ($8 each). They were super simple to install and the bronze bushings themselves are not pressed in, they just slide in and are a very precise fit. The hardest part of the whole job was removing the Stock OEM Trunnions. They have the least amount of play compared to my Comps and Smith Brothers when new.

*I can not figure out why every time a upload a picture it turns it upside down or turns it 90 degrees*
Are you saying that the Straub bushings wore-out on you in 20,000 miles? I never heard this and if it's true, please post the pictures of your worn-out Straub bushings. Does Chris Straub know about this?
Old 07-12-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Suncc49
I just put the straub kit in last weekend along with new springs and pushrods... the Straub stuff was nice with the bronze bushing and oil passages. That wear on your comp kit is insane!!
Yeah i'm not thrilled. The car is a toy, I'm not saying i don't beat on it a bit, but it's definitely not a race car being pushed to the limits. This is obviously a design problem with the parts, as many people are also discovering this problem after 3-5k miles. I'm well within their suggested specs for lift and spring pressures. The funny thing is; when i did all these upgrades 2 years ago, EVERYONE said to switch the trunions out with with comps. It was almost a given. Funny how that works.
Old 07-12-2017, 01:33 PM
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I am glad you found the comp damage before anything else broke. Again, I'm not sure if that is what was causing the damaged tips on the pushrods/rockers but it may very well have been.
In another month or so TSP should have their new roller tip rockers they just came out with fitted with a slightly larger CME bushing setup. I am going that route as soon as they are available.
Old 07-13-2017, 03:12 AM
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The trash on the rocker arm and the valve seat is from a failed needle bearing

Ask me how I know










Pressing out the bearings was easy















]

Last edited by chrysler kid; 07-13-2017 at 03:54 AM.
Old 07-13-2017, 07:12 PM
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Well i ordered the Straub kit, but then ended up scoring a set of Yella Terra roller rockers on here with very low miles for a good price, so I'm going that direction instead.

I also ordered a set of PRC 225 heads. I really didn't want to dump any money into my old 853 heads to get them cleaned up, new valves, and decked. Obviously alot more expensive to buy new heads, but i've been wanting to do it for a while to take a little more advantage of the cam, and I've already gone this far...
Old 07-13-2017, 08:42 PM
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Yt rockers are a bit of over kill on a torquer v2, but it's your money. Make sure you take your time and set them correctly

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...lrand-etc.html
Old 07-13-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by chrysler kid
Yt rockers are a bit of over kill on a torquer v2, but it's your money. Make sure you take your time and set them correctly

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...lrand-etc.html
I got a very fair price for piece of mind. Isn't everything we do to our cars technically overkill?
Old 07-14-2017, 05:49 AM
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I did my setup on the bench: YT Setup
Old 07-14-2017, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
I did my setup on the bench: YT Setup
Thanks man. I picked up some check springs the other day, and this was my plan.


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