Anyone have Frankenstein stage 1 243 heads?
04-12-2018, 06:19 PM
#101
he’s on the “street outlaws” show. he’s actually part of chucks crew. i get he’s busy, and i was fine with waiting. but if he was too busy, he should’ve told me and i would’ve been perfectly fine shipping them out myself
04-25-2018, 07:13 PM
#102
This is relevant my interest as I’m in the prep fo building an LS6 in my CTS V daily. To minimize downtime I’m going to pickup a separate set of heads so I can get all the work done over a couple days.
To have a set Of 243 stock heads done like the Frankenstein’s or buy some done like the Thompson Motorsports is my current conundrum.
I’m trying to get some info on the parts cost, port work cost (seems like 650-750), and the assembly cost. I’d like to be able to make a fair cost/performance comparison and pull the trigger in the next few weeks.
Overall target is a refreshed setup (top end and wear items) and ~100 wheel hp increase over stock.
General replace/upgrades to oem ish
-Oil pump (OEM LS6 new)
-Timing chain and wear guides etc (OEM LS2 upgrade)
-Fresh LS6 dampener/balancer pulley
-T56 1st gear synchro and a few bits
-Water pump thermostat etc
-General oem fasteners, gaskets, seals etc
-I've already done a lot of maintenance bits like hoses, tensioners, oil pan gasket, plugs, wires, etc
POWA upgrades waiting to go on
-LS7 42lb injectors as the 28lb stockers won't cut it
-Stainless headers (maximizer OBX knock offs)
-Cometic 0.040 head gaskets to bump compression from 10.5 to ~11:1
POWA upgrades I'm still researching
-Upgrade 243 heads (Frankenstein style) to ported, polished, 3-5 angle valve job, fresh guts, and upgraded beehive springs
-Easy button from Thompson Motorsports EBAY store for ~1250 delivered (everything but cam and pushrods)
-These are well respected (for budget stuff) and use oem quality stuff but not exactly how I would build them with the LS7lifters/trays, TI retainers, upgraded trunions, Dell West valves (nascar leftovers)
-Pick up some bare no name 243’s already cnc’d and valve jobbed then have them built...
- In either of the above head choices there are valve upgrades available to increase size and reduce weight but I'm just not sure
-Cam upgrade to something like a 224/236 586/598 LSA114 - maybe up to 610
- I think there are literally a million cam choices for ~$400 with significant variations on lift, duration, and LSA. The sticky thread is awesome and educational but want to wait and talk to someone on the heads before buying
-It's a manual and
-Pushrod length will be a measure and buy mid build as a buddies shop is right by Jeggs Cubs Oh
-Intake and throttle body is a bit odd as it has the LS2 90MM throttle body and intake already which should be a nice upgrade over the 78MM stock LS6 setup
-Unless a Fast intake setup hits my Craigslist search really cheap I cannot justify ~800 for an intake and another ~250 for the bigger DBW throttle body for ~15hp
-There is likely a middle of the road option to port out my stock LS2 by hand and add the bigger aftermarket DBW throttlebody for ~250 to get a ~10hp gain
In theory the ~100hp adds up below on top of my 378 whp and I’ll be headed back to the same dyno and tuner.
-Header 30hp
-Cam 30hp
-Headwork and compression 40hp
In theory I'll have about $2900 out of pocket and ~500 of that comes back from flipping my old heads, injectors, and a few spare bits. In classic style I’ll have 2K in HP adders and 900 in repair stuff.
To have a set Of 243 stock heads done like the Frankenstein’s or buy some done like the Thompson Motorsports is my current conundrum.
I’m trying to get some info on the parts cost, port work cost (seems like 650-750), and the assembly cost. I’d like to be able to make a fair cost/performance comparison and pull the trigger in the next few weeks.
Overall target is a refreshed setup (top end and wear items) and ~100 wheel hp increase over stock.
General replace/upgrades to oem ish
-Oil pump (OEM LS6 new)
-Timing chain and wear guides etc (OEM LS2 upgrade)
-Fresh LS6 dampener/balancer pulley
-T56 1st gear synchro and a few bits
-Water pump thermostat etc
-General oem fasteners, gaskets, seals etc
-I've already done a lot of maintenance bits like hoses, tensioners, oil pan gasket, plugs, wires, etc
POWA upgrades waiting to go on
-LS7 42lb injectors as the 28lb stockers won't cut it
-Stainless headers (maximizer OBX knock offs)
-Cometic 0.040 head gaskets to bump compression from 10.5 to ~11:1
POWA upgrades I'm still researching
-Upgrade 243 heads (Frankenstein style) to ported, polished, 3-5 angle valve job, fresh guts, and upgraded beehive springs
-Easy button from Thompson Motorsports EBAY store for ~1250 delivered (everything but cam and pushrods)
-These are well respected (for budget stuff) and use oem quality stuff but not exactly how I would build them with the LS7lifters/trays, TI retainers, upgraded trunions, Dell West valves (nascar leftovers)
-Pick up some bare no name 243’s already cnc’d and valve jobbed then have them built...
- In either of the above head choices there are valve upgrades available to increase size and reduce weight but I'm just not sure
-Cam upgrade to something like a 224/236 586/598 LSA114 - maybe up to 610
- I think there are literally a million cam choices for ~$400 with significant variations on lift, duration, and LSA. The sticky thread is awesome and educational but want to wait and talk to someone on the heads before buying
-It's a manual and
-Pushrod length will be a measure and buy mid build as a buddies shop is right by Jeggs Cubs Oh
-Intake and throttle body is a bit odd as it has the LS2 90MM throttle body and intake already which should be a nice upgrade over the 78MM stock LS6 setup
-Unless a Fast intake setup hits my Craigslist search really cheap I cannot justify ~800 for an intake and another ~250 for the bigger DBW throttle body for ~15hp
-There is likely a middle of the road option to port out my stock LS2 by hand and add the bigger aftermarket DBW throttlebody for ~250 to get a ~10hp gain
In theory the ~100hp adds up below on top of my 378 whp and I’ll be headed back to the same dyno and tuner.
-Header 30hp
-Cam 30hp
-Headwork and compression 40hp
In theory I'll have about $2900 out of pocket and ~500 of that comes back from flipping my old heads, injectors, and a few spare bits. In classic style I’ll have 2K in HP adders and 900 in repair stuff.
243 GM core castings
PAC Racing .660" dual springs and titanium retainers
GM Valves
CNC port intake runners
CNC port exhaust runners
Surface heads
Face intake surface and exhaust surface
True valve cover rail
Performance 5 angle valve job
Logo heads
Assemble heads
Vacuum test heads
INTAKE CFM EXHAUST CFM
.100" 78 .100" 57
.200" 138 .200" 106
.300" 204 .300" 140
.400" 259 .400" 166
.500" 288 .500" 185
.600" 306 .600" 194
.650" 310 .650" 197
.700" 313 .700" 200
These heads have a 235CC intake runner and 95CC exhaust runner.
Cam is a 232/236, 625/625 112lsa.
Just need to sort out an intake and we’re ready to assemble! Psyched to see how it compares to the 378whp baseline. Would love to see something 480+whp.
05-03-2018, 06:31 AM
#103
TECH Regular
Stock bottom end?
How much u wanna spin with her?
235cc on in.issa lot, i would consider a 240+ cam for that huge hole otherwise u may let a lot of hp's on the table...
Greetz
Ron
How much u wanna spin with her?
235cc on in.issa lot, i would consider a 240+ cam for that huge hole otherwise u may let a lot of hp's on the table...
Greetz
Ron
05-03-2018, 08:01 AM
#104
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84FSP
This is relevant my interest as I’m in the prep fo building an LS6 in my CTS V daily. To minimize downtime I’m going to pickup a separate set of heads so I can get all the work done over a couple days.
To have a set Of 243 stock heads done like the Frankenstein’s or buy some done like the Thompson Motorsports is my current conundrum.
I’m trying to get some info on the parts cost, port work cost (seems like 650-750), and the assembly cost. I’d like to be able to make a fair cost/performance comparison and pull the trigger in the next few weeks.
Overall target is a refreshed setup (top end and wear items) and ~100 wheel hp increase over stock.
General replace/upgrades to oem ish
-Oil pump (OEM LS6 new)
-Timing chain and wear guides etc (OEM LS2 upgrade)
-Fresh LS6 dampener/balancer pulley
-T56 1st gear synchro and a few bits
-Water pump thermostat etc
-General oem fasteners, gaskets, seals etc
-I've already done a lot of maintenance bits like hoses, tensioners, oil pan gasket, plugs, wires, etc
POWA upgrades waiting to go on
-LS7 42lb injectors as the 28lb stockers won't cut it
-Stainless headers (maximizer OBX knock offs)
-Cometic 0.040 head gaskets to bump compression from 10.5 to ~11:1
POWA upgrades I'm still researching
-Upgrade 243 heads (Frankenstein style) to ported, polished, 3-5 angle valve job, fresh guts, and upgraded beehive springs
-Easy button from Thompson Motorsports EBAY store for ~1250 delivered (everything but cam and pushrods)
-These are well respected (for budget stuff) and use oem quality stuff but not exactly how I would build them with the LS7lifters/trays, TI retainers, upgraded trunions, Dell West valves (nascar leftovers)
-Pick up some bare no name 243’s already cnc’d and valve jobbed then have them built...
- In either of the above head choices there are valve upgrades available to increase size and reduce weight but I'm just not sure
-Cam upgrade to something like a 224/236 586/598 LSA114 - maybe up to 610
- I think there are literally a million cam choices for ~$400 with significant variations on lift, duration, and LSA. The sticky thread is awesome and educational but want to wait and talk to someone on the heads before buying
-It's a manual and
-Pushrod length will be a measure and buy mid build as a buddies shop is right by Jeggs Cubs Oh
-Intake and throttle body is a bit odd as it has the LS2 90MM throttle body and intake already which should be a nice upgrade over the 78MM stock LS6 setup
-Unless a Fast intake setup hits my Craigslist search really cheap I cannot justify ~800 for an intake and another ~250 for the bigger DBW throttle body for ~15hp
-There is likely a middle of the road option to port out my stock LS2 by hand and add the bigger aftermarket DBW throttlebody for ~250 to get a ~10hp gain
In theory the ~100hp adds up below on top of my 378 whp and I’ll be headed back to the same dyno and tuner.
-Header 30hp
-Cam 30hp
-Headwork and compression 40hp
In theory I'll have about $2900 out of pocket and ~500 of that comes back from flipping my old heads, injectors, and a few spare bits. In classic style I’ll have 2K in HP adders and 900 in repair stuff.
Minor progress update. Ended up picking up the the heads and cam from Thompson Motorsports.
243 GM core castings
PAC Racing .660" dual springs and titanium retainers
GM Valves
CNC port intake runners
CNC port exhaust runners
Surface heads
Face intake surface and exhaust surface
True valve cover rail
Performance 5 angle valve job
Logo heads
Assemble heads
Vacuum test heads
INTAKE CFM EXHAUST CFM
.100" 78 .100" 57
.200" 138 .200" 106
.300" 204 .300" 140
.400" 259 .400" 166
.500" 288 .500" 185
.600" 306 .600" 194
.650" 310 .650" 197
.700" 313 .700" 200
These heads have a 235CC intake runner and 95CC exhaust runner.
Cam is a 232/236, 625/625 112lsa. 230/246, .625/.625, 113LSA Correction -
Bottom end is indeed stock and the intention is to keep the 6500rpm as redline. The Thompson team agreed with you and suggested a bigger cam. I also scored a deal on Cerakoting the headers so that will leave me feeling better about underhood temps as well.
Originally Posted by 84FSP
This is relevant my interest as I’m in the prep fo building an LS6 in my CTS V daily. To minimize downtime I’m going to pickup a separate set of heads so I can get all the work done over a couple days.
To have a set Of 243 stock heads done like the Frankenstein’s or buy some done like the Thompson Motorsports is my current conundrum.
I’m trying to get some info on the parts cost, port work cost (seems like 650-750), and the assembly cost. I’d like to be able to make a fair cost/performance comparison and pull the trigger in the next few weeks.
Overall target is a refreshed setup (top end and wear items) and ~100 wheel hp increase over stock.
General replace/upgrades to oem ish
-Oil pump (OEM LS6 new)
-Timing chain and wear guides etc (OEM LS2 upgrade)
-Fresh LS6 dampener/balancer pulley
-T56 1st gear synchro and a few bits
-Water pump thermostat etc
-General oem fasteners, gaskets, seals etc
-I've already done a lot of maintenance bits like hoses, tensioners, oil pan gasket, plugs, wires, etc
POWA upgrades waiting to go on
-LS7 42lb injectors as the 28lb stockers won't cut it
-Stainless headers (maximizer OBX knock offs)
-Cometic 0.040 head gaskets to bump compression from 10.5 to ~11:1
POWA upgrades I'm still researching
-Upgrade 243 heads (Frankenstein style) to ported, polished, 3-5 angle valve job, fresh guts, and upgraded beehive springs
-Easy button from Thompson Motorsports EBAY store for ~1250 delivered (everything but cam and pushrods)
-These are well respected (for budget stuff) and use oem quality stuff but not exactly how I would build them with the LS7lifters/trays, TI retainers, upgraded trunions, Dell West valves (nascar leftovers)
-Pick up some bare no name 243’s already cnc’d and valve jobbed then have them built...
- In either of the above head choices there are valve upgrades available to increase size and reduce weight but I'm just not sure
-Cam upgrade to something like a 224/236 586/598 LSA114 - maybe up to 610
- I think there are literally a million cam choices for ~$400 with significant variations on lift, duration, and LSA. The sticky thread is awesome and educational but want to wait and talk to someone on the heads before buying
-It's a manual and
-Pushrod length will be a measure and buy mid build as a buddies shop is right by Jeggs Cubs Oh
-Intake and throttle body is a bit odd as it has the LS2 90MM throttle body and intake already which should be a nice upgrade over the 78MM stock LS6 setup
-Unless a Fast intake setup hits my Craigslist search really cheap I cannot justify ~800 for an intake and another ~250 for the bigger DBW throttle body for ~15hp
-There is likely a middle of the road option to port out my stock LS2 by hand and add the bigger aftermarket DBW throttlebody for ~250 to get a ~10hp gain
In theory the ~100hp adds up below on top of my 378 whp and I’ll be headed back to the same dyno and tuner.
-Header 30hp
-Cam 30hp
-Headwork and compression 40hp
In theory I'll have about $2900 out of pocket and ~500 of that comes back from flipping my old heads, injectors, and a few spare bits. In classic style I’ll have 2K in HP adders and 900 in repair stuff.
Minor progress update. Ended up picking up the the heads and cam from Thompson Motorsports.
243 GM core castings
PAC Racing .660" dual springs and titanium retainers
GM Valves
CNC port intake runners
CNC port exhaust runners
Surface heads
Face intake surface and exhaust surface
True valve cover rail
Performance 5 angle valve job
Logo heads
Assemble heads
Vacuum test heads
INTAKE CFM EXHAUST CFM
.100" 78 .100" 57
.200" 138 .200" 106
.300" 204 .300" 140
.400" 259 .400" 166
.500" 288 .500" 185
.600" 306 .600" 194
.650" 310 .650" 197
.700" 313 .700" 200
These heads have a 235CC intake runner and 95CC exhaust runner.
Bottom end is indeed stock and the intention is to keep the 6500rpm as redline. The Thompson team agreed with you and suggested a bigger cam. I also scored a deal on Cerakoting the headers so that will leave me feeling better about underhood temps as well.
Last edited by 84FSP; 05-03-2018 at 08:11 AM. Reason: oops
05-03-2018, 02:10 PM
#106
Appreciate the comments - I;m hoping the additional compression keeps the low and mid range in a nice range. it would certainly be a higher revving setup that could go higher.