AFR 210 Mongoose Heads
AFR 210 Mongoose Heads Hey guys starting a new build looking to go with some aftermarket heads this time around looking at the 210's because it's a stock cube 5.7 going to utilize a factory ls1 crank aftermarket rods and probably a small dome 2 valve relief piston looking for 12:8 or better static for an e85 build going to keep hydraulic roller cam and probably run some Jessel rockers looking to turn 8-8500 going in a El Camino low end torque is my enemy lol so 3500-4000 stall 4l80 3.73gears 26.5 tire height and probably a 250 wet shot got an uncle with a 2017 ZO6 that's the target lol! Mainly street not daily going on a diet so we shall see the big thing for me is I am trying to do this low buck but I do all my own Labor and all I am out is parts and time no hurry so I troll the Classifieds daily lol! Just really want to know are aftermarket castings worth the added 1600 over freshening up some 243's?
The stock cranks aren't a bad piece guy's are making 1000hp on them it will get rebalanced but I really don't see the need for a forged piece if I was trying to do sustained RPM runs I could see the need but honestly it may only see 8-8500 once or twice in its lifetime not going there everyday. The 210's will get ported but won't go up to the 230 runners of the next mongoose head port velocity is one of my reasons for sticking to a smaller intake runner I don't want a lazy port! I am not building this for a dyno queen the under the curve power is what matters!
8,500 is asking a lot from a stock crank and getting a combination together that is going to bring in enough air to turn that many RPMs will also dictate your build.. Even more important is valvetrain stability at those RPMs. More engines are probably destroyed due to this than crankshaft failure. If you can make the crank live to 8,500 you still have to control the valves.
You'd be better off bringing the R's down and spend money elsewhere to make power.
I will also say this, Turning 8,500 and keeping the power under the curve , Possible yes but not on a budget.
You'd be better off bringing the R's down and spend money elsewhere to make power.
I will also say this, Turning 8,500 and keeping the power under the curve , Possible yes but not on a budget.
Understand the extreme importance of valvetrain stability at these rpms will be running titanium valves and appropriate springs and retainers the basic question was are the AFR mongoose castings a better casting to start with than a 243/799 casting HP/TQ to cents wise I know if I really wanted to I could go to a builder like LME and get some 12 degree heads and have custom Pistons spec'ed then run a Callie's Dragon slayer rotating assembly and have 20 grand in the build of the motor the simple fact is the old school way of doing things is my way I guess I don't like throwing cubic dollars at an engine I like to spend the money where it needs it and pay attention during assembly not chasing the last .5hp and as stated 8-8500 is max shift point not sustained I have seen stock cranks handle 1000hp at 7-7200 rpm on forced induction engines I don't see how reducing rotational mass and performing a good high end balancing job wouldn't allow a stock crank on a NA engine to handle the occasional 8-8500 shift! I wouldn't spray above 7000rpm anyways the nitrous kit is more for show and try and show my uncles z06 my elco's taillights! Other than that the engine is mainly going to see a little street use and maybe LS Fest and dragweek type events. If I am completely off my rocker on the LS factory crank then I will step up to a complete rotating assembly but honestly I don't think I am off my rocker with my thinking the engine will probably be 500ish crank and call it 750ish on spray
Z06
3600lbs
650 hp @ 6400 rpm
650 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm and traction control, 0-60 3.0 seconds <------- These will be the nail in your coffin
It's one hell of mean car right off the show room floor and your going to need to overcome his advantages = low end torque, Electronics like launch control and traction control. It's one badass car.
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I have the TSP 243 stage 1 heads which have an intake volume of about 225. Even with the stock cam off idle, I wouldn't consider the heads to be lazy. 210 seems too small to me for a built LS1.
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Verdad Gallardo Wannafbody I understand that the 210 port is small I have a porter who does R&D work for Trans Am and NASCAR Teams I really want to know if the AFR castings are worth the added cost over the 243/799 castings!
LLLosingit I am well aware of the ZO6's capabilities I have no doubts that he will pull me from a dig with both of us on street tires I run 315/35-17 Drag Radials street but can put a nice 28/11.50-15 slick on the car I have a built 10bolt 8.5 with 3.73's and was hoping to drop enough torque by not building a 400+ inch stroker to try and keep the light *** end of the El Co in check lol! I know it's a tall order but the Elco ways right at 3800lbs with an all iron SBC and I figure I can get below him with the ls1 aluminum block setup and a one piece fiberglass front end also deleting the bumpers and swapping the bench seat out for a pair of buckets. So hp to weight I shouldn't be too far off. I have thought about doing a 383 build and bring the RPMS down to 7-7500 with the 250 wet shot E-85 high compression build just again worried about over powering the *** end on the street lol!
LLLosingit I am well aware of the ZO6's capabilities I have no doubts that he will pull me from a dig with both of us on street tires I run 315/35-17 Drag Radials street but can put a nice 28/11.50-15 slick on the car I have a built 10bolt 8.5 with 3.73's and was hoping to drop enough torque by not building a 400+ inch stroker to try and keep the light *** end of the El Co in check lol! I know it's a tall order but the Elco ways right at 3800lbs with an all iron SBC and I figure I can get below him with the ls1 aluminum block setup and a one piece fiberglass front end also deleting the bumpers and swapping the bench seat out for a pair of buckets. So hp to weight I shouldn't be too far off. I have thought about doing a 383 build and bring the RPMS down to 7-7500 with the 250 wet shot E-85 high compression build just again worried about over powering the *** end on the street lol!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 255
From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
I would suggest considering the Mamo Motor Sport 220 Cylinder Heads,
Tony did design The AFR Mongose 210 years ago btw.
Yella Terra RR with the 10 MM bolts, Save about $800 VS Jessel,
Cam Motion LLSR, worth 10-15 more RWHP beyond 7000 RPM with equivalent lift and duration (adjusted for Lash)
Just from improved valvetrain stability and lightness.
Increase lift to .700" VS .630"-.650 pick up another 15-20 more easily.
While it is possible to turn 8K RPM or more
W/HR the benefits of LLSR For your goals
Are hard to ignore IMO.
Regarding stock Crank 7500 RPM & 250 N2O is as far as I would go,
8000+ is pushing the envelope pretty hard.
Contact Tony Mamo @ MMS for the best Cathedral Heads.
Oiling will be crucial.
Good Luck
Tony did design The AFR Mongose 210 years ago btw.
Yella Terra RR with the 10 MM bolts, Save about $800 VS Jessel,
Cam Motion LLSR, worth 10-15 more RWHP beyond 7000 RPM with equivalent lift and duration (adjusted for Lash)
Just from improved valvetrain stability and lightness.
Increase lift to .700" VS .630"-.650 pick up another 15-20 more easily.
While it is possible to turn 8K RPM or more
W/HR the benefits of LLSR For your goals
Are hard to ignore IMO.
Regarding stock Crank 7500 RPM & 250 N2O is as far as I would go,
8000+ is pushing the envelope pretty hard.
Contact Tony Mamo @ MMS for the best Cathedral Heads.
Oiling will be crucial.
Good Luck
Lol G Atsma my Uncle only bought the Z06 after he rode in my older one I had an 04 Z06 with cam headers Corsa 3inch header back no cats and 150shot provided by a TNT Power Ring kit Tuned by HPT in New Braunfels Tx the car made 593rwhp on spray and something like 480 ft lbs of tq if I remember right been about a decade since it was dyno'Ed and a few years since I sold the car but ever since I built it he was hooked! He tried to build my aunts 78 Trans Am with a Butler built 455 to take it but no dice well my aunt was damn near killed by a trucker four years ago when he ran a stop sign crossing traffic on a rural highway turning her hardtop into a convertible and putting her in the hospital for nearly a year. Long story short the insurance finally settled for an undisclosed amount well over 7 figures and the first thing my uncle bought was this new Z06 and said beat this! Well challenge accepted but now I am retired from the Army and going to School my wife is a special needs teacher so we live ok but not an unlimited budget! I though about the turbo route but I don't know enough about them to be comfortable plus I know it's not about how much power you make it is how well you put it to the ground! Also I will be maybe 15k in my build where he has 80k plus in the purchase of that Z06 lol! So smiles per dollar I am way ahead already lol and even if I can't beat him if I am close that will be enough to get under his skin lol!
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,293
Likes: 3,617
From: Central Cal.
Yeah, well, I couldn't help razzin' just a bit, right? At least do enough to give him a partial view of your taillights when needed..
Don't overthink this; there is enough info on these forums to build any power level you want.
Find a GOOD build and copy it; no sense trying to reinvent the wheel. Have fun Whiskeyboy84!
Don't overthink this; there is enough info on these forums to build any power level you want.
Find a GOOD build and copy it; no sense trying to reinvent the wheel. Have fun Whiskeyboy84!
Thanks G Atsma I will lol �� I had contemplated a procharged build but 7grand for the procharger plus the long block build starts to open that can of worms of where to draw the line. Probably going with a set of Mamo Heads and a Callie's rotating assembly going to be 6 grand in to the longblock minus the odd and ends and then pull the RPM back a bit to keep it streetable and then two stage the nitrous kit run a 125 and a 250 shot to start or 150 and 300 since I am going to step up to a fully forged rotating assembly.