Morel link bar lifter failure
10-16-2017, 06:09 AM
#1
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Morel link bar lifter failure - Hi,
Recently I had my 250,000 kms LS2 engine rebuilt with a CAM kit and Morel Tie Bar lifters, as recommended by the engine builder.
I had the car serviced at 8,000 kms, and all was good.
At just over 10,000 kms, the engine made a very loud knocking sound, and I immediately pulled the car over and got the car towed to the engine builder to get it checked out.
It turns out it was a failure of a Morel Tie Bar lifter (see pics below).
It scratched the lifter bore, the camshaft, the crank, and metal filings scratched the cylinder bore and the pistons, so only the heads can be reused.
I have a few questions, I hope some people on this forum can help me with.
1. Has anyone seen a Morel Tie Bar lifter with this kind of damage, and what was the cause?
2. Why would the link bar fail and the roller at the bottom to be ground down to the extent it has?
3. I have been told that there are many cases of recent failures of the Morel Tie Bar lifters in LS Engines, I would be very interested to hear from people with the same part failure, or provided with links where I can find more information.
Thanks in advance for any information.
Rob
10-16-2017, 12:51 PM
#3
Which Morel part number is that?
Also, more information.
It looks like the lifter turned and rode the cam perpendicular. That accounts for the ground down wheel. It also accounts for the bent link bar. But what caused that, well, I don't know for sure.
But, weak valve springs can cause a sticking or rattling of the pin loose, which then causes all kinds of trouble. Can't see in the pic though to tell.
Also, pushrod flex cause this issue. Look at the pins that hold the bars on and look for shiny rub marks on the pushrod side of the pins. If the pushrods are flimsy or rubbing the heads it will flex it and rub the pins and break the tower off like yours... the smashed roller wheel is an after the fact when the bar breaks, lifter turns and lofts and then it breaks next.
Also, more information.
It looks like the lifter turned and rode the cam perpendicular. That accounts for the ground down wheel. It also accounts for the bent link bar. But what caused that, well, I don't know for sure.
But, weak valve springs can cause a sticking or rattling of the pin loose, which then causes all kinds of trouble. Can't see in the pic though to tell.
Also, pushrod flex cause this issue. Look at the pins that hold the bars on and look for shiny rub marks on the pushrod side of the pins. If the pushrods are flimsy or rubbing the heads it will flex it and rub the pins and break the tower off like yours... the smashed roller wheel is an after the fact when the bar breaks, lifter turns and lofts and then it breaks next.
10-16-2017, 02:58 PM
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it is a custom grind cam, so I dont have much info on that. Dual valve springs, the standard LS2 rockers we reused (not roller rockers) with hardened pushrods.
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10-19-2017, 01:19 PM
#11
For a cast body tie bar they are a very good set and easy on the budget and work for most street combos that occasionally see the track.
Above that with machined/billet bodies you run into twice the price + but obviously get a higher quality product.
For what its worth both the comp cams lifters and lunati are morels so their "cheap" tie bars are 5290s.
Above those are the 5206.
10-19-2017, 06:00 PM
#13
The 5290s are fine but above that youre lookin at quite a bit more $$. They are rated to about 6500 for a reason. Have they been taken over that? Of course. Have they lived? Yes. Is it a good idea to take that for granted? No. Road race use or sustained high rpm use above 6500 id not recommend them. But youre also looking at not using 5/16 prs also and better than a set of cheap duals imo.
For a cast body tie bar they are a very good set and easy on the budget and work for most street combos that occasionally see the track.
Above that with machined/billet bodies you run into twice the price + but obviously get a higher quality product.
For what its worth both the comp cams lifters and lunati are morels so their "cheap" tie bars are 5290s.
Above those are the 5206.
For a cast body tie bar they are a very good set and easy on the budget and work for most street combos that occasionally see the track.
Above that with machined/billet bodies you run into twice the price + but obviously get a higher quality product.
For what its worth both the comp cams lifters and lunati are morels so their "cheap" tie bars are 5290s.
Above those are the 5206.
10-19-2017, 07:32 PM
#14
Best lifter is probably the Johnson ST2126LSR short travel lifters with axle oiling. I run them in my setup and they are terrific.
The downside is they are quite a bit more than most lifters and require spot on pushrods for all 16 lifters.
The cheaper 2110R are good at near the same price point as the 5290s... while the 2116LSR are link bars with slow leakdown and reduced travel. They are probably comparable to the 5206 from Morel in cost and quality.
The reason I like the Johnson lifters is they have a .700" wheel vs the .750" wheel of the Morels. Typically, a larger wheel is better at spreading load. But in an .842" lifter body, you lose material around the fork thereby placing the larger wheel in a weaker body. You overcome that with good quality materials. And the higher end Morels don't have a problem with this as they are made to exacting tolerances with high-quality materials. The 5290s are less on both accounts and it shows up from time to time.
Since these are for hydraulic setups, I'll take the smaller wheel with more support. In a solid roller setup with huge spring pressures, the larger wheel in a larger body gets the nod.
One other thing with any of these: make sure you clean them super good before installing them. Any grit or **** on the wheel will ruin the lifter and possibly grenade the engine from a seized lifter. Also, run them with a good break-in oil like Joe Gibbs and then run a high zinc motor oil like VR1 or LS30.
The downside is they are quite a bit more than most lifters and require spot on pushrods for all 16 lifters.
The cheaper 2110R are good at near the same price point as the 5290s... while the 2116LSR are link bars with slow leakdown and reduced travel. They are probably comparable to the 5206 from Morel in cost and quality.
The reason I like the Johnson lifters is they have a .700" wheel vs the .750" wheel of the Morels. Typically, a larger wheel is better at spreading load. But in an .842" lifter body, you lose material around the fork thereby placing the larger wheel in a weaker body. You overcome that with good quality materials. And the higher end Morels don't have a problem with this as they are made to exacting tolerances with high-quality materials. The 5290s are less on both accounts and it shows up from time to time.
Since these are for hydraulic setups, I'll take the smaller wheel with more support. In a solid roller setup with huge spring pressures, the larger wheel in a larger body gets the nod.
One other thing with any of these: make sure you clean them super good before installing them. Any grit or **** on the wheel will ruin the lifter and possibly grenade the engine from a seized lifter. Also, run them with a good break-in oil like Joe Gibbs and then run a high zinc motor oil like VR1 or LS30.
10-20-2017, 12:35 PM
#15
Best lifter is probably the Johnson ST2126LSR short travel lifters with axle oiling. I run them in my setup and they are terrific.
The downside is they are quite a bit more than most lifters and require spot on pushrods for all 16 lifters.
The cheaper 2110R are good at near the same price point as the 5290s... while the 2116LSR are link bars with slow leakdown and reduced travel. They are probably comparable to the 5206 from Morel in cost and quality.
The reason I like the Johnson lifters is they have a .700" wheel vs the .750" wheel of the Morels. Typically, a larger wheel is better at spreading load. But in an .842" lifter body, you lose material around the fork thereby placing the larger wheel in a weaker body. You overcome that with good quality materials. And the higher end Morels don't have a problem with this as they are made to exacting tolerances with high-quality materials. The 5290s are less on both accounts and it shows up from time to time.
Since these are for hydraulic setups, I'll take the smaller wheel with more support. In a solid roller setup with huge spring pressures, the larger wheel in a larger body gets the nod.
One other thing with any of these: make sure you clean them super good before installing them. Any grit or **** on the wheel will ruin the lifter and possibly grenade the engine from a seized lifter. Also, run them with a good break-in oil like Joe Gibbs and then run a high zinc motor oil like VR1 or LS30.
The downside is they are quite a bit more than most lifters and require spot on pushrods for all 16 lifters.
The cheaper 2110R are good at near the same price point as the 5290s... while the 2116LSR are link bars with slow leakdown and reduced travel. They are probably comparable to the 5206 from Morel in cost and quality.
The reason I like the Johnson lifters is they have a .700" wheel vs the .750" wheel of the Morels. Typically, a larger wheel is better at spreading load. But in an .842" lifter body, you lose material around the fork thereby placing the larger wheel in a weaker body. You overcome that with good quality materials. And the higher end Morels don't have a problem with this as they are made to exacting tolerances with high-quality materials. The 5290s are less on both accounts and it shows up from time to time.
Since these are for hydraulic setups, I'll take the smaller wheel with more support. In a solid roller setup with huge spring pressures, the larger wheel in a larger body gets the nod.
One other thing with any of these: make sure you clean them super good before installing them. Any grit or **** on the wheel will ruin the lifter and possibly grenade the engine from a seized lifter. Also, run them with a good break-in oil like Joe Gibbs and then run a high zinc motor oil like VR1 or LS30.
10-28-2017, 01:51 AM
#16
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I found out the specs for my Cam. Duration 230/230. Lobe separation is 112. Valve Lift intake is 612, and 605 for the exhaust. Are the lifters an appropriate match for this Cam?
10-28-2017, 11:26 AM
#17
10-28-2017, 05:15 PM
#19
Was it on the exhaust or intake?
Intake and exhaust are XFI... not a brutal lobe, but aggressive. I'd run a better pushrod next time... an 11/32nd to help with deflection and loft. If the pushrod flexes and allows the lifter to loft or vault off the cam and then crash back down, then it doesn't matter how good the lifter is. Eventually it will give or the cam itself will give way.
Intake and exhaust are XFI... not a brutal lobe, but aggressive. I'd run a better pushrod next time... an 11/32nd to help with deflection and loft. If the pushrod flexes and allows the lifter to loft or vault off the cam and then crash back down, then it doesn't matter how good the lifter is. Eventually it will give or the cam itself will give way.