Hello Everyone,

Seems quite a few people have been inquiring about the timeline on the 225's....I assure you, we are doing everything we can to get the 225 program finished....The bottom line is that everyone at AFR is being pulled in many directions just to keep up with the current demand of ALL of our product, and with the recent production launch of the 205 , we are spread thinner than ever. We feel very fortunate that this is the case and we appreciate everyone that supports our products and our efforts, but that new much larger facility can't happen soon enough!!

With that said, my best guess is that we will START shipping 225 product sometime the latter part of August....It could happen sooner, but I wouldn't be as comfortable quoting that. If you have been waiting and can't wait a moment longer, we certainly understand, but I'm confident the 225's will up the performance "ante" and will be very much worth the wait.

While Im on the 225 subject, let me quickly touch on my 205 Versus 225 question I get asked about 10 times a day....I promised you guys I would touch on this in a previous thread.

WHICH HEAD IS RIGHT FOR YOU???

My take on it is this....

205's: Primary design objective was to build a cylinder head with the smallest cross-sectional area and volume that was still capable of flowing 300 CFM (the benchmark # for making big power with a SBC)

This would make for a cylinder head that had tremendous airspeed and significant "volume" as well (Two huge factors in a generating big power over a wide RPM band).

Benefits of that design would be throttle response, low-speed torque production, fuel economy, strong "peak" torque numbers, and with a legitamate 300 CFM's on tap, the ability to put up big HP #'s as well.

I think we have hit the mark on all of those parameters....I wish I had the chance to let each and every one of you drive my car....It's impressive for a docile, stock displacement shortblock.

OK….”The 205 Guy”

If you are looking to build a street/strip car with a camshaft anywhere in the 220's @ .050 or milder, and you want to place the emphasis on STREET (at the cost of some PEAK Hp #'s), the 205 is a better choice. If you are concerned with fuel economy and low speed part throttle "SOTP", the 205 is the right choice. And lets not forget that even with a mild cam that provides a “stealthy” idle, great drivability, and lots of good low and middle RPM performance, you still have the ability to approach 450 HP at the tire. If you want more power and have the money to spend and buy every "bolt-on" in the book, you have the potential to make over 470 HP at the wheel even with the "small" 205's and conservative cam timing. With LOTS of dyno time, my best recorded run has been 481 RWHP SAE corrected.

Moving right along...."The 225 Guy"

Any blown or turbo application....The 225 would be the better choice.
(Nitrous could go either way....If your more aggressive, go with the 225's)

If your thinking 224 cams are “puss”....there's just not enough lope....225's for you! Seriously, if your putting a camshaft in your engine that you need to notch your pistons for, 225's would be the right choice. If your looking at something 230+ at .050, go with the larger heads....You have selected a camshaft that is more focused on big numbers higher in the RPM band....the 225's will help you make MORE.

Any stroked or larger displacement shortblock would also benefit from the 225’s, unless you want great all around power and "tractor like" bottom end grunt from the combination.

If all you can think about is putting down the big number at the local dyno shop, (on your way to the track of course), the 225's are the right heads.

This is starting to read like Letterman’s "Top Ten" reasons to go with the larger 225's....
Hmmmmmm.....and the NUMBER ONE reason to go with the 225 heads is that you will lose sleep knowing you didn't buy the largest head we offer and you left some power under the table!! (This reason will seriously appeal to MANY people.....LOL)

Well, this post was kinda fun and I'm sure I left a few things out, but I think I covered most of the topics I wanted to touch on....

Need to get some sleep so I can wake up tomorrow and do it all over again....
The 225 prototype is calling my name!!

Regards to all,
Tony Mamo

 

Cheers for the info. I think this does help clear up a few things.

 

after reading that, I dont personally know anyone that wants the 205s

lol

 

I do, THey would be better for the guys with stock or higher race weights from the way it sounds

 

I would say a lot of Vette guys will spring for 205's and a 218 to 224ish cam.

 

well i am deffenetly in the market for the 225s. the good thing is that by the time i can afford them, they would of already been out and tested .

 

Man these AFRs are sounding better and better as the days go by.

 

what kinda power do you think someone would get out of the 225's w/ g5x3 cam.. it would be cool to start seeing some more stock bottom end 500rwhp ls1's

 

when is AFR going to make some C5R style heads. that would be awsome and bring the price down for people that want more.

 

What are the prices on the 225s?

 

Guys from what my brain tells me is watch out for the 225's to start going on cars that were considering C5R heads.
With the 205's doing as well as they are so far the 225 with some extra custom porting might flow in the 340-360 range.
Maybe even better. Oly time will tell.

 

So, for the dumb guys like myself, which one will get a N/A stock bottom end down the 1/4 quicker, all else being equal, except for maybe cam choice?

Also, this seems to be the big question to me, how will a ported/finished set of 205's compare to the standard 225's?
Would you even want to touch either head?
How big is too big for the stock bottom end?
Would you not want to port the 225's if you are on the stock bottom end and running N/A?
(I hope these questions make sense)

 

If folks aren't careful they will pick up the flow numbers on the AFR head, but make them a big pile... You need to watch out for who you turn the heads loose to. There are going to be a "smidge" of work you can do on these heads, but if you buy the 205's most folks will be just about ready to bolt on at that point. If you go into the floor of the port and get them up to say a 215cc they may flow a bit better but you have ruined many of the features of the head basically.

Tony laid on the line who should be using what.

As for a C5R head. The heads aren't the issue, its an intake....

 

so the 225's on a blower combo with a "mild" 220/224 would be good "Street" combo? yay or nay? I drive my car on the street 98% of the time so I want good throttle response throughout the rpm range, i could care less about peak numbers.

 

I think what he's sayin is that if you want better street manners, as in better throttle response, better lower end torque, then you're looking at the 205's. I would bet that most people who put on blowers and run large spray setups are looking for some huge numbers, and thats one reason why 225's are suggested. Also that blowers and nitrous are always happier with more air, afaik.

 

Velocity isn't an issue on a forced induction setup like it is on a N/A combo...

 

Did you mean to say "but if you buy the 225's most folks will be just about ready to bolt on at that point?"

 

No, I meant that a 205 is just where you need it to be out of the box.

There are a few things that you might do to it, but we are not talking about much grinding at all. Maybe just a bit of cleanup. If you go start hogging out runner, you will end up with a head that is a good paperweight, or something that looks good on a bench but is WAY down on power...

Head porters are often like artists. They have certain "features" to the way they do a port. I think this will become apparent when certain folks learn the lesson the hard way and they apply those "features" to a head and it looks good on the bench and the heads won't make power...

All I will say is that there are lots of places to remove material out of a port. You can remove material out of the wrong places and make a head that looks good on a bench but won't make power. A bench is atool, but no the be all or end all in what works. There are some truly gifted folks out there who understand how air "moves" and how to direct it through a port. Thse are the guys who if they touch your heads can make more power for you...

Then there are the other guys who try real hard and mean well, but... Well, you get the idea.

 

Anyone has pics of the chambers on the 205's. I'm wondering if this is one "area" that could be improved or cleaned?

And what type of rockers have been tested on them so far without clearance issues, like HS, Pro magnums, YT, jesels etc...??

Also milling like .040 for around 11:1 CR. any issues one should be aware of by doing so.??

 

AMEN

Ed