Poor man LS3 build!
01-23-2019, 12:34 AM
#1
Poor man LS3 build! Hey guys,
I’m building a motor for a daily driver 1970 C10. Want it to be a lot of fun to drive, pull hard from idle and use the stock converter 2500ish/ 4L80e. I don’t want to break the bank on this build.
Build list:
LQ4 block bored .065 over
LS3 heads and intake
LS3 head gaskets
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts)
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3
Melling oil pump
LSA 58lb injectors
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts. I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
I’m building a motor for a daily driver 1970 C10. Want it to be a lot of fun to drive, pull hard from idle and use the stock converter 2500ish/ 4L80e. I don’t want to break the bank on this build.
Build list:
LQ4 block bored .065 over
LS3 heads and intake
LS3 head gaskets
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts)
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3
Melling oil pump
LSA 58lb injectors
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts. I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
01-23-2019, 04:20 AM
#2
That's definitely a cool build for a daily driver, 1970 C10's rock. The 68-72's are probably my favorite trucks of all.
LQ4 block bored .065 over
FWIW - I've read most all of them can go to 4.080" safely. I have also read ~ 1 in 5 can go to 4.100 to 4.125. That would absolutely need to be sonic checked first. That might be expensive detour if the goal is to use stock LS3 pistons or stock replacement LS3 pistons.
LS3 heads and intake - excellent choice!, and the LS3 offset intake rockers, will need TB cable bracket, maybe deck heads to raise compression a little
LS3 head gaskets - may want to go thinner for a hair more compression
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts) - resizing the rods to make sure make sure ARP bolts don't distort.
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3 - that's a nice cam but with ~376 cubic inches, and stock 68-72 C10's being ~3400 to ~3800 pounds, pretty close to a 4th Gen fbody, I think you could safely go larger on the cam and keep excellent drive ability and good bottom end torque if you like maybe ~4 to 6 degrees. Say 220/228 or so depending on rear gear.
Melling oil pump - l like my high pressure one. Several board members really like the high volume one as the extra oil flow can help keep the bearings cooler. Unless road racing very unlikely to impossible to pump pan dry with 6 quarts of oil in system from what I understand.
LSA 58lb injectors - seems like overkill on the injector size to me unless NOS or forced induction are in the future. I have these on my tame 416 that makes ~517whp, and they are at 73% duty cycle. Smaller injectors can be easier to tune and give better mpg in some cases. 48# injectors should work well if NOS or FI aren't in the plan.
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts.
LQ4 block bored .065 over
FWIW - I've read most all of them can go to 4.080" safely. I have also read ~ 1 in 5 can go to 4.100 to 4.125. That would absolutely need to be sonic checked first. That might be expensive detour if the goal is to use stock LS3 pistons or stock replacement LS3 pistons.
LS3 heads and intake - excellent choice!, and the LS3 offset intake rockers, will need TB cable bracket, maybe deck heads to raise compression a little
LS3 head gaskets - may want to go thinner for a hair more compression
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts) - resizing the rods to make sure make sure ARP bolts don't distort.
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3 - that's a nice cam but with ~376 cubic inches, and stock 68-72 C10's being ~3400 to ~3800 pounds, pretty close to a 4th Gen fbody, I think you could safely go larger on the cam and keep excellent drive ability and good bottom end torque if you like maybe ~4 to 6 degrees. Say 220/228 or so depending on rear gear.
Melling oil pump - l like my high pressure one. Several board members really like the high volume one as the extra oil flow can help keep the bearings cooler. Unless road racing very unlikely to impossible to pump pan dry with 6 quarts of oil in system from what I understand.
LSA 58lb injectors - seems like overkill on the injector size to me unless NOS or forced induction are in the future. I have these on my tame 416 that makes ~517whp, and they are at 73% duty cycle. Smaller injectors can be easier to tune and give better mpg in some cases. 48# injectors should work well if NOS or FI aren't in the plan.
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts.
- Maybe an under drive pulley would be worth adding.
- The LS3 intake will probably need a TB cable bracket for the cable TB. WS6 Store is outstanding and will have what's needed.
- Definitely new lifters & trays. LS7's are budget friendly.
- If budget allows a $1,000 CNC & Manley springs package for the LS3 heads won't cost much more than the new dual spring kit.
- The Rick Crawford Radius Rod mod can get more airflow out of the LS3 intake if you want more hp in the future.
l think your plan looks good in concept
A+
I hope you do a build thread on the C10 here on LS1TECH
Would love to see the process with the C10.
I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
WARR Performance makes very nice 92 TB's and they are fairly priced, quality part, less expensive than the big names.
I've had one before and liked it. Will probably use one for my next bolt on project.
Speed Engineering one of our sponsors also has their own line of TB's. They are less than $100. I've not seen one but S.E. seems to do nice quality for a great price. Might be able researching. May try one of these on the bolt on project.
Best wishes with the C10 project
l think your plan looks good in concept
A+I hope you do a build thread on the C10 here on LS1TECH
Would love to see the process with the C10.
I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
WARR Performance makes very nice 92 TB's and they are fairly priced, quality part, less expensive than the big names.
I've had one before and liked it. Will probably use one for my next bolt on project.
Speed Engineering one of our sponsors also has their own line of TB's. They are less than $100. I've not seen one but S.E. seems to do nice quality for a great price. Might be able researching. May try one of these on the bolt on project.
Best wishes with the C10 project
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 01-23-2019 at 04:41 AM.
01-23-2019, 11:19 AM
#3
That's definitely a cool build for a daily driver, 1970 C10's rock. The 68-72's are probably my favorite trucks of all.
LQ4 block bored .065 over
FWIW - I've read most all of them can go to 4.080" safely. I have also read ~ 1 in 5 can go to 4.100 to 4.125. That would absolutely need to be sonic checked first. That might be expensive detour if the goal is to use stock LS3 pistons or stock replacement LS3 pistons.
LS3 heads and intake - excellent choice!, and the LS3 offset intake rockers, will need TB cable bracket, maybe deck heads to raise compression a little
LS3 head gaskets - may want to go thinner for a hair more compression
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts) - resizing the rods to make sure make sure ARP bolts don't distort.
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3 - that's a nice cam but with ~376 cubic inches, and stock 68-72 C10's being ~3400 to ~3800 pounds, pretty close to a 4th Gen fbody, I think you could safely go larger on the cam and keep excellent drive ability and good bottom end torque if you like maybe ~4 to 6 degrees. Say 220/228 or so depending on rear gear.
Melling oil pump - l like my high pressure one. Several board members really like the high volume one as the extra oil flow can help keep the bearings cooler. Unless road racing very unlikely to impossible to pump pan dry with 6 quarts of oil in system from what I understand.
LSA 58lb injectors - seems like overkill on the injector size to me unless NOS or forced induction are in the future. I have these on my tame 416 that makes ~517whp, and they are at 73% duty cycle. Smaller injectors can be easier to tune and give better mpg in some cases. 48# injectors should work well if NOS or FI aren't in the plan.
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts.
LQ4 block bored .065 over
FWIW - I've read most all of them can go to 4.080" safely. I have also read ~ 1 in 5 can go to 4.100 to 4.125. That would absolutely need to be sonic checked first. That might be expensive detour if the goal is to use stock LS3 pistons or stock replacement LS3 pistons.
LS3 heads and intake - excellent choice!, and the LS3 offset intake rockers, will need TB cable bracket, maybe deck heads to raise compression a little
LS3 head gaskets - may want to go thinner for a hair more compression
ARP head studs
PAC dual valve springs with titanium retainers
LS3 rods with factory pistons (ARP rod bolts) - resizing the rods to make sure make sure ARP bolts don't distort.
Texas Speed Cam 216/224 .600/.600 114+3 - that's a nice cam but with ~376 cubic inches, and stock 68-72 C10's being ~3400 to ~3800 pounds, pretty close to a 4th Gen fbody, I think you could safely go larger on the cam and keep excellent drive ability and good bottom end torque if you like maybe ~4 to 6 degrees. Say 220/228 or so depending on rear gear.
Melling oil pump - l like my high pressure one. Several board members really like the high volume one as the extra oil flow can help keep the bearings cooler. Unless road racing very unlikely to impossible to pump pan dry with 6 quarts of oil in system from what I understand.
LSA 58lb injectors - seems like overkill on the injector size to me unless NOS or forced induction are in the future. I have these on my tame 416 that makes ~517whp, and they are at 73% duty cycle. Smaller injectors can be easier to tune and give better mpg in some cases. 48# injectors should work well if NOS or FI aren't in the plan.
Anything I should change? Tell me your thoughts.
- Maybe an under drive pulley would be worth adding.
- The LS3 intake will probably need a TB cable bracket for the cable TB. WS6 Store is outstanding and will have what's needed.
- Definitely new lifters & trays. LS7's are budget friendly.
- If budget allows a $1,000 CNC & Manley springs package for the LS3 heads won't cost much more than the new dual spring kit.
- The Rick Crawford Radius Rod mod can get more airflow out of the LS3 intake if you want more hp in the future.
l think your plan looks good in concept A+
I hope you do a build thread on the C10 here on LS1TECH
Would love to see the process with the C10.
I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
WARR Performance makes very nice 92 TB's and they are fairly priced, quality part, less expensive than the big names.
I've had one before and liked it. Will probably use one for my next bolt on project.
Speed Engineering one of our sponsors also has their own line of TB's. They are less than $100. I've not seen one but S.E. seems to do nice quality for a great price. Might be able researching. May try one of these on the bolt on project.
Best wishes with the C10 project
l think your plan looks good in concept
A+I hope you do a build thread on the C10 here on LS1TECH
Would love to see the process with the C10.
I still need to buy a cable throttle body and wiring harness. Thinking about a Nick Williams TB??
WARR Performance makes very nice 92 TB's and they are fairly priced, quality part, less expensive than the big names.
I've had one before and liked it. Will probably use one for my next bolt on project.
Speed Engineering one of our sponsors also has their own line of TB's. They are less than $100. I've not seen one but S.E. seems to do nice quality for a great price. Might be able researching. May try one of these on the bolt on project.
Best wishes with the C10 project
01-23-2019, 02:28 PM
#5
TECH Senior Member
01-23-2019, 03:26 PM
#6
Exactly! and anyone who wants a stock converter or baby cam in a C10 should just stick with a Gen 1 SBC lol
Seriously though, no way hes gonna be happy with that little cam. And a stall converter is no trouble driving around with especially since a 4l80e has a lockup anyways
Just my opinion
Seriously though, no way hes gonna be happy with that little cam. And a stall converter is no trouble driving around with especially since a 4l80e has a lockup anyways
Just my opinion
The following users liked this post:
DualQuadDave (11-12-2023)
01-23-2019, 03:29 PM
#7
TECH Senior Member
I THINK he's just trying to keep the $$$ lower by not having to buy a higher stall converter.
(I always chuckle at everyone calling them "stall" converters. They ALL stall, just some higher than stock ones...)
(I always chuckle at everyone calling them "stall" converters. They ALL stall, just some higher than stock ones...)
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01-23-2019, 04:17 PM
#8
I did a 73 Camaro with a L92 kind of like your new build. Yes a bit bigger cam won't hurt you. Texas Speed has a 225/230? cam that will keep your power brakes working. I would run the LS3 intake and 42 lb injectors. So easy to tune per my tuner guy. I did spend the money on a Yank 3200 stall converter. Money well spent. On the Power Tour I did 25 mpg. Fbody FEA cleans up the front of the engine nicely. Puts the alternator down low so it's not up in your face when you open the hood. Did 420 hp at the rear wheels. Not huge numbers but it ran super. Hand the keys to almost anyone and not be afraid of them having stalling problems.
I used a Holley DBC throttle body.
I used a Holley DBC throttle body.
01-23-2019, 09:11 PM
#10
I love the 6.0 bored to 4.065 idea and using stock LS3 pistons. I've been wanting a reason to build one forever so I been telling everyone else to do it lol.
For some reason tech@ws6store advised against but didn't elaborate on why. I can't figure it out, but he knows his stuff so I wonder what the deal is.
Don't do the ARP rod bolts unless you want to spin the motor to over 7k, if you use gen 4 rods you can probably already go to 7200 ish or more anyway. I like to keep them at 7k personally, anything above that is usually pointless anyway because most setups nose over or go into valve control issues. I say pass on the ARP's, not because I want to say that I love the idea of upgrading the rod bolts, but to do it right you need to have the rods resized. If you're up for all that go ahead, but in most cases it's more headache than it's worth and the juice doesn't end up being worth the squeeze.
The truck will be plenty fun with that cam and stock converter. Up the converter and you'll blow the tires off everywhere if it don't already. The cam in my opinion is fine. It's larger than a stock LS3 cam and will retain low end and snappy response. Should be a real fun cruiser with plenty of go.
For some reason tech@ws6store advised against but didn't elaborate on why. I can't figure it out, but he knows his stuff so I wonder what the deal is.
Don't do the ARP rod bolts unless you want to spin the motor to over 7k, if you use gen 4 rods you can probably already go to 7200 ish or more anyway. I like to keep them at 7k personally, anything above that is usually pointless anyway because most setups nose over or go into valve control issues. I say pass on the ARP's, not because I want to say that I love the idea of upgrading the rod bolts, but to do it right you need to have the rods resized. If you're up for all that go ahead, but in most cases it's more headache than it's worth and the juice doesn't end up being worth the squeeze.
The truck will be plenty fun with that cam and stock converter. Up the converter and you'll blow the tires off everywhere if it don't already. The cam in my opinion is fine. It's larger than a stock LS3 cam and will retain low end and snappy response. Should be a real fun cruiser with plenty of go.
01-23-2019, 10:28 PM
#11
TECH Senior Member
I wonder if WS6store just feels the cylinders are getting thinner than they like with that much boring. Maybe were a few cases of cracking?
01-23-2019, 10:32 PM
#12
The truck will be plenty fun with that cam and stock converter. Up the converter and you'll blow the tires off everywhere if it don't already. The cam in my opinion is fine. It's larger than a stock LS3 cam and will retain low end and snappy response. Should be a real fun cruiser with plenty of go.
But it’s not my build so I’ll leave it alone now, you will be tearing back into it if you don’t do it now!
The following users liked this post:
dawgs74 (11-18-2023)
01-24-2019, 12:09 AM
#13
Thank you guys for all the comments and great advice. You all made some really good points. This is a budget build and I’m trying to keep it cheap... My future wife and I are planning a wedding and we are planning to make babies soon. Lol.
Injectors 58lbs, My friend had them laying around so I got them cheap. If they start to be a pain to tune with then I’ll change them out.
ARP rod bolts: Thank you for the advice. I was planning on doing the rod bolts as a “just in case” if I changed the cam or spray in the future.
Accessories: Truck crank pulley, LS1 alternator and PS. As for the brackets; Dirty Dingo ($118) or mill them out on my old Bridgeport.
Torque Converter: I was running a LQ4 3,200 stall with a 228/232 .595/.595 113 LSA cam, Texas Speed 5.3 2.5 CNC ported heads, and few other things in my Landcruiser and did not like the drive ability. Trans temps were always hot and I ended up putting a huge trans cooler on that replace my AC condenser. It’s now a stock LQ4 and happy. With the C10, I’d rather be under cammed then make the same mistake again.
Thank you guys... I’ll keep you up dated with all the progress! As for now, parts are all ordered and the block is at the machine shop. Might be using slightly used pistons as well.
Injectors 58lbs, My friend had them laying around so I got them cheap. If they start to be a pain to tune with then I’ll change them out.
ARP rod bolts: Thank you for the advice. I was planning on doing the rod bolts as a “just in case” if I changed the cam or spray in the future.
Accessories: Truck crank pulley, LS1 alternator and PS. As for the brackets; Dirty Dingo ($118) or mill them out on my old Bridgeport.
Torque Converter: I was running a LQ4 3,200 stall with a 228/232 .595/.595 113 LSA cam, Texas Speed 5.3 2.5 CNC ported heads, and few other things in my Landcruiser and did not like the drive ability. Trans temps were always hot and I ended up putting a huge trans cooler on that replace my AC condenser. It’s now a stock LQ4 and happy. With the C10, I’d rather be under cammed then make the same mistake again.
Thank you guys... I’ll keep you up dated with all the progress! As for now, parts are all ordered and the block is at the machine shop. Might be using slightly used pistons as well.
01-24-2019, 01:13 PM
#14
Sounds pretty boring, exspecially after spending all the money on building the engine and swapping it in. Why not spend another $500ish and make it much better !
But it’s not my build so I’ll leave it alone now, you will be tearing back into it if you don’t do it now!
Thank you guys for all the comments and great advice. You all made some really good points. This is a budget build and I’m trying to keep it cheap... My future wife and I are planning a wedding and we are planning to make babies soon. Lol.
Injectors 58lbs, My friend had them laying around so I got them cheap. If they start to be a pain to tune with then I’ll change them out.
ARP rod bolts: Thank you for the advice. I was planning on doing the rod bolts as a “just in case” if I changed the cam or spray in the future.
Accessories: Truck crank pulley, LS1 alternator and PS. As for the brackets; Dirty Dingo ($118) or mill them out on my old Bridgeport.
Torque Converter: I was running a LQ4 3,200 stall with a 228/232 .595/.595 113 LSA cam, Texas Speed 5.3 2.5 CNC ported heads, and few other things in my Landcruiser and did not like the drive ability. Trans temps were always hot and I ended up putting a huge trans cooler on that replace my AC condenser. It’s now a stock LQ4 and happy. With the C10, I’d rather be under cammed then make the same mistake again.
Thank you guys... I’ll keep you up dated with all the progress! As for now, parts are all ordered and the block is at the machine shop. Might be using slightly used pistons as well.
Injectors 58lbs, My friend had them laying around so I got them cheap. If they start to be a pain to tune with then I’ll change them out.
ARP rod bolts: Thank you for the advice. I was planning on doing the rod bolts as a “just in case” if I changed the cam or spray in the future.
Accessories: Truck crank pulley, LS1 alternator and PS. As for the brackets; Dirty Dingo ($118) or mill them out on my old Bridgeport.
Torque Converter: I was running a LQ4 3,200 stall with a 228/232 .595/.595 113 LSA cam, Texas Speed 5.3 2.5 CNC ported heads, and few other things in my Landcruiser and did not like the drive ability. Trans temps were always hot and I ended up putting a huge trans cooler on that replace my AC condenser. It’s now a stock LQ4 and happy. With the C10, I’d rather be under cammed then make the same mistake again.
Thank you guys... I’ll keep you up dated with all the progress! As for now, parts are all ordered and the block is at the machine shop. Might be using slightly used pistons as well.
05-07-2019, 10:56 AM
#15
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Revive this thread a bit, OP or anybody bore .065 out of an LQ4/9 block, built the motor and “RUN” it without issues?
Ive been thinking about doing this 4.065x4.100 426ci rotating Assembly, short cylinders and all.
Ive been thinking about doing this 4.065x4.100 426ci rotating Assembly, short cylinders and all.
05-07-2019, 11:10 AM
#16
TECH Veteran
I ran a .065 over LQ9 block. I had no issues at all. I just went to a LS2 block and I like it better due to weight.
05-12-2019, 09:30 AM
#20
I rear gear does this C10 have?