Chevelle69

Hello everyone I'm new to the LS world more familiar with gen 1 small blocks but have decided to leave the stone age and build my first LS engine. I decided on a 2002 LQ4 to rebuild. Previous owner stated it was a runner and on tear down all I really found was some slight pitting on a couple of cylinder walls from sitting outside I presume. I found some 243 heads to bump compression over the 317's and brought them with the block to the machine shop. After 2 months and another week delay do to some cam bearings issues they delivered the engine to make up for the delays which was nice. Apparently they ran into issues cause of different cam bearings for different years I'm told. They punched it out 20 thou new flat pistons, full meal deal to the block deck, align hone etc. Same with the heads valve job resurfacing and so on.

So I have a couple of concerns before I put this thing together. The bill came in at $3700 for block and head work which is much higher than originally quoted. I brought in the original OE main bolts figuring they would be fine to reuse but they bought ARP studs without telling me for $375. Maybe I'm wrong but whats wrong with reusing the old main studs they're not TTY and I'm not looking to drag race, then engine will be around 400 - 450 hp range I guesstimate. Are new bolts required to align bore/hone? They also charged me $170 for main bearings and the package arrived opened with one of the bearings visibly scratched to the point I can catch my finger nail on it. What really concerns me though are these cam bearings they installed. It looks like they took a sand paper wheel to two of the bearings it and reamed them out. I can still see the fine shavings around the bearing. In the pic I attached you can see this as well a scratch that I can catch my finger nail on.

So I am by no means an expert engine builder but do I have legit concerns or over reacting? They still have the heads for now and a $1000 deposit on the outstanding amount. I live in Canada so prices are generally higher up here. Would appreciate your thoughts on this situation. Thanks for listening to my first world problems.

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

I can't speak to your engine shop and why they did what they did or charged you what they charged you.

As for the cam bearing size, yes there are different sets depending on when the block was manufactured. The old ones should be punched out and checkd for size before ordering new ones. CH10 and CH23 are the 2 sizes for the early and late Gen 3 blocks.

The OEM Main bolts can be reused and are not TTY. If the main bolts are replaced with ARP Main Studs, It is absolutely necessary to align hone the block.

As for the cam bearings, It may have been to tight and they needed some additional clearance for the cam to slide in. I have only had this happen 1 time and they had to sand the bearing to get enough clearance.

As for the main bearing the likely opened it to put in the block and scratched it when they were measuring the clearance. Bearing clearance should always be checked after machining to make sure everything is correct.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

You can reuse the OEM main and rod bolts assuming they're not damaged or over stretched. I reuse them all the time. The ARP studs are definitely not needed with a 450hp goal, but is probably the reason they line honed the mains. If they reused the stock bolts, you probably wouldn't be paying for the studs or the line hone.

Those performance bearings are overkill for your power goals. Summit main bearings, which are actually King bearings, are less than $60 in the US and would have been fine for your build. On the bright side, the picture of the main bearing looks like it was checked with a dial bore gauge, which is actually what you want to see. At least you know they checked it with proper instruments and not plastigage. Do all of the main bearings have those scratches or just the one?

The cam bearings are sometimes tight. When a shop presses them in, the clearance is what it is. If the shop even bothers to check (which a lot do not) then oftentimes they will scuff the bearings with scothbrite to open up the clearance. It's not ideal, but it's better than not having enough clearance. I've done it and it didn't seem to cause any issues, but I always cleaned the block afterwards and wiped the bearings with acetone.

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

For $3700 I could pick up 3 good condition complete 6.0's that will handle WAY more than 450hp
Your engine would have probably been better off if you never took it apart...


But I see this all the time, people coming from older SBC/BBC's are used to having the engines bored and rebuilt.
Ive said it 1000 times though, these newer engines are almost always better if left alone. Only exception would be if your just wanting to build a stroker or forged bottom end for some major power.

Kawabuggy

iTrader: (1)

LS7 colorado.. I get your point about just leaving things alone.. However... I have over 10 LS complete engines sitting on my shop floor.. NONE of them have good rocker arms in them.. I've posted this before and people got pissy about it.. I'm just stating facts as I can physically see them with my own eyes. I LOVE LS engines. I'm not bashing them at all... However.. Every single LS engine I've rebuilt has had to have NEW rockers... You can buy them cheaply enough with the trunion upgrade already done and that's what I've been doing. I would NEVER... NOT EVER... buy a junk yard LS engine and just drop it into a project. I'm not saying I would completely tear it down to the bare block either.. Just that some things need to be checked.. a happy medium if you will. I'm currently building a 5.3 for another project. This is a Gen 4 engine that I got ahold of because it was making lifter noise. I tore it down to find ONE lifter roller starting to pit, and that cam lobe was getting wiped as well. All I'm doing is a dingleberry hone job, new rings, new rod & main bearings, new oil pump, new timing chain, new rockers, new cam bearings (I bought the tool and do these myself now) and a new cam & lifters.. I will clean the ring grooves on the pistons with the correct tool, and remove all carbon from the top of the pistons.. At this point, I'll still have over $1000 in this rebuildable core that I bought for $150. I know you can buy "complete running engines" for less... But how many miles will they have on them? How is the oil pressure? These things I don't want to worry about so I always buy as cheaply as I can and go through them my self. You can't trust that buying a used engine for $1000-1500 is going to be what the seller says it is.. I'd rather just buy something I know needs work, and do it all myself. That way I know for sure that everything is right and I'm not having to take someones word that what they are saying was done to the engine, or what is inside the engine, is really how it is.

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

I work in a shop, and constantly see these engine ran HARD in box trucks well passed 300,000 miles, thats about when the rest of the truck falls apart and the engine is still running strong.
Very few have been replaced and it was always something catastrophic and normally due to lack of oil (driver fail to check it)

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Where are you getting these motors and how are you determining that ALL of them have bad rockers?

stockA4

I'm seriously so tired 😴 of the blanket statement bad information, I've never even done trunions on any of my stuff I'll take them all to 6,800-7k all day no probs. I've got plenty of spares and a good pen magnet if I ever actually break one lol

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

same here

CattleAc

iTrader: (7)

Me too, except where I'm from it's pickups and suv's...Now I'm not here to step on Kawabuggy's toes. All of his may have had bad rocker arms. But I've got a pile of these 5.3's and 6.0's laying around, and have used many of them unopened in builds. I may have been lucky, but I've had really good luck with these high mileage LS's.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

335,600 on the LQ9 with no oil burning and still plenty of get up and go. Preventative maintenance goes a long way!