I Need to Make Progress
I Need to Make Progress Hello,
It's been a while since I've last been around the forum. My 6.0 was in the machine shop getting all purtied up, and I finally got it back after many months.
Here's the story: I decided to further my education last fall, so I've been really busy, and money flow is a bit less. However, I would like to continue to work on getting my 6.0 powered third gen IROC Camaro running and driving. My initial plan was to use my 228/230 112 camshaft with a DBW TB and get it all custom tuned or use a Holley system. Now I'm more leaning towards getting an LS2 camshaft with a cable TB and getting a stock LS2 tune on my ECM, at least just to get this project rolling.
I'm hoping some of the more experienced individuals can give me some advice on this. Would the LS2 cam be okay, or is there a better option that could run off a stock ECM flash?
Project specs:
-243 Heads shaved
-6.0 bored 20 thou
-new pistons
-ARP cracked rod bolts
-new bearings, freeze plugs, etc
-ls6 intake
-4l60e
Thank you,
Slow'86
It's been a while since I've last been around the forum. My 6.0 was in the machine shop getting all purtied up, and I finally got it back after many months.
Here's the story: I decided to further my education last fall, so I've been really busy, and money flow is a bit less. However, I would like to continue to work on getting my 6.0 powered third gen IROC Camaro running and driving. My initial plan was to use my 228/230 112 camshaft with a DBW TB and get it all custom tuned or use a Holley system. Now I'm more leaning towards getting an LS2 camshaft with a cable TB and getting a stock LS2 tune on my ECM, at least just to get this project rolling.
I'm hoping some of the more experienced individuals can give me some advice on this. Would the LS2 cam be okay, or is there a better option that could run off a stock ECM flash?
Project specs:
-243 Heads shaved
-6.0 bored 20 thou
-new pistons
-ARP cracked rod bolts
-new bearings, freeze plugs, etc
-ls6 intake
-4l60e
Thank you,
Slow'86
I guess I'm mostly just trying to find the best budget friendly option just to get this project going somewhere again. If I can reflash my 24x ECU for an LS2 stock tune and just use a stocker LS2 camshaft, that would be a fine power level to start. Is that possible?
Or maybe an LS6 tune and cam?
Even the LS email tune services are stupid expensive now.
Or maybe an LS6 tune and cam?
Even the LS email tune services are stupid expensive now.
So the 05-06 Vette LS2 used the old style ECU, so I should be okay to have a tuner flash it on to mine?
My ECU is from a LQ9/80e Escalade, so if the LS2 flash is a no-go, I guess that's also an option. I believe I still have the OE cam for the 6.0..
My ECU is from a LQ9/80e Escalade, so if the LS2 flash is a no-go, I guess that's also an option. I believe I still have the OE cam for the 6.0..
You are going to have to get a tune no matter what. Vats will need to be deleted before it will start in your swap. Then you'll need a segment swap in order to make the trans work since the original file is for an 80e. I would say do the job once and put the parts in it you want and then get it properly tuned since its going to have to be even just to start with stock parts.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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So will it run ok? Probably yes. But what's the gap from OK to good, not sure, and also depends on who's going in and tweaking your tune.
I had this kind of issue, when I put together the LQ4 in GMC. I've larger cam, LS2 injectors, TBSS intake, etc. So I wanted to copy stuff like injector data from the 07 TBSS tune and put into my 2000 computer, and you find tables don't always have the same X and Y scales. So there's a little massaging that needs to happen.
Honestly, ditching the factory ECU and HP tuners and going to Terminator X was the best thing I did for the truck. But I do my own tuning, and was not good with HP tuners. With a factory ECU, you need to figure out what GM's goals were, and what all the values are, which you need to care about, which not. Their software is designed for their priorities, which is not hot rodding. The Holley is set up much more straight forward for our needs, without a focus on emissions, economy, and longevity.
This is always a little difficult to answer. Likely, yes, I would use the LS2 tune values if possible. But again, you have to consider the differences in the ECUs. Its not like there is just a 24x and an 58x tune. There are a lot of tables and values in the 'tune', and they aren't the same between all years and operating systems. So one might have values for 400, 600, 800 rpm, and one might be 300, 600, 900 rpm (just making that up, but you get the point). You are also putting an LS6 intake onto the LS2. You are probably not using LS2 injectors with that rail due to the length. You have a smaller TB than the LS2. etc, etc, etc.
So will it run ok? Probably yes. But what's the gap from OK to good, not sure, and also depends on who's going in and tweaking your tune.
I had this kind of issue, when I put together the LQ4 in GMC. I've larger cam, LS2 injectors, TBSS intake, etc. So I wanted to copy stuff like injector data from the 07 TBSS tune and put into my 2000 computer, and you find tables don't always have the same X and Y scales. So there's a little massaging that needs to happen.
Honestly, ditching the factory ECU and HP tuners and going to Terminator X was the best thing I did for the truck. But I do my own tuning, and was not good with HP tuners. With a factory ECU, you need to figure out what GM's goals were, and what all the values are, which you need to care about, which not. Their software is designed for their priorities, which is not hot rodding. The Holley is set up much more straight forward for our needs, without a focus on emissions, economy, and longevity.
So will it run ok? Probably yes. But what's the gap from OK to good, not sure, and also depends on who's going in and tweaking your tune.
I had this kind of issue, when I put together the LQ4 in GMC. I've larger cam, LS2 injectors, TBSS intake, etc. So I wanted to copy stuff like injector data from the 07 TBSS tune and put into my 2000 computer, and you find tables don't always have the same X and Y scales. So there's a little massaging that needs to happen.
Honestly, ditching the factory ECU and HP tuners and going to Terminator X was the best thing I did for the truck. But I do my own tuning, and was not good with HP tuners. With a factory ECU, you need to figure out what GM's goals were, and what all the values are, which you need to care about, which not. Their software is designed for their priorities, which is not hot rodding. The Holley is set up much more straight forward for our needs, without a focus on emissions, economy, and longevity.
I will be going super easy on my drivetrain for at least the first 1000 miles just to make sure everything is good to go. So if the tune is funky, I have plenty of time to sort everything out.
I love the Holley systems! Super cool. I just cannot afford it for a while. And I really would like to make some real progress without having a brick wall in the future.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,305
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From: Monroe,NY
You will be fine with that tune until you can dial it in. I know you were talking about cable driven throttlebody. You have to have the proper ecm to do that so make sure you have the correct one. I did my swap back in 2011 and if i had the choice back then i would have went with the holley terminator system. Would have saved me money in the long run. I still might switch one of these days. Way easier to tune than hptuners and stock ecm.
You will be fine with that tune until you can dial it in. I know you were talking about cable driven throttlebody. You have to have the proper ecm to do that so make sure you have the correct one. I did my swap back in 2011 and if i had the choice back then i would have went with the holley terminator system. Would have saved me money in the long run. I still might switch one of these days. Way easier to tune than hptuners and stock ecm.
Okay, excellent. I'm actually going to use PCMHammer, as that is free, and the cable to use with it is cheap.
Yes, I will have to figure out what exactly I want to do for my pedal. I think the 04 Corvette used DBW? I currently have the old style truck DBW with the old seperat box, or I could do the Corvette pedal, or just do the DBC. I'll do more research and find which will work best.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 643
Likes: 574
From: Carnation, WA
On a seperate note, I've been doing a bit of reading about the LS6 camshaft for an A4, since I plan to use a 60e behind my motor. Sounds like I won't be able to utilize that top end power without really low gearing in the rear and a decent torque converter. So I'm thinking maybe to start I could use the normal late LS1 camshaft (12561721). I think I also already have the 99-00 LS1 camshaft ( 12560965). I'm guessing that the later one with the 116.5 LSA might be a bit better for an A4 (vs. 119.5 LSA).
I'm not too picky at this point. There's always post education when I can actually afford more power, but with this lower power level, at least my drive train will stay healthier for longer.
If I remember correctly, LS1 and LQ4 camshafts are the same? Double check before end up buying cam you already have.
Earlier LS1 camshaft is a little more aggressive than later one and better choice imo. That said, both if these cams are really tiny and you would be better off with small aftermarket camshaft.
Earlier LS1 camshaft is a little more aggressive than later one and better choice imo. That said, both if these cams are really tiny and you would be better off with small aftermarket camshaft.
If I remember correctly, LS1 and LQ4 camshafts are the same? Double check before end up buying cam you already have.
Earlier LS1 camshaft is a little more aggressive than later one and better choice imo. That said, both if these cams are really tiny and you would be better off with small aftermarket camshaft.
Earlier LS1 camshaft is a little more aggressive than later one and better choice imo. That said, both if these cams are really tiny and you would be better off with small aftermarket camshaft.
The goal is to have a factory tune that runs okay to start. Then I can tune it up little by little from there. If a small cam is a better choice, are there any cams that are known to run okay on a factory tune?
I'll likely be running a trailblazer I6 torque converter or just the stock Camaro one I have, and my rear end is a 3.42 LSD.
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Central Cal.
You might have the early LQ4 cam, which is shared with the 5.3L LM7.
The later one (AKA LQ9 & LS1 cam) which is 196/201, .467/.479,116 LSA, is good for a small boost in power.
An even better choice that will run on a stock tune is the BTR (Brian Tooley Racing) Truck Torque cam. 202/202, .511/.511,111+1 LSA. A solid 20+ lb./ft. of torque added from off idle all the way up, and 35HP added up top. It will LOVE the stock converter and 3.42 rear gear.
The later one (AKA LQ9 & LS1 cam) which is 196/201, .467/.479,116 LSA, is good for a small boost in power.
An even better choice that will run on a stock tune is the BTR (Brian Tooley Racing) Truck Torque cam. 202/202, .511/.511,111+1 LSA. A solid 20+ lb./ft. of torque added from off idle all the way up, and 35HP added up top. It will LOVE the stock converter and 3.42 rear gear.
You might have the early LQ4 cam, which is shared with the 5.3L LM7.
The later one (AKA LQ9 & LS1 cam) which is 196/201, .467/.479,116 LSA, is good for a small boost in power.
An even better choice that will run on a stock tune is the BTR (Brian Tooley Racing) Truck Torque cam. 202/202, .511/.511,111+1 LSA. A solid 20+ lb./ft. of torque added from off idle all the way up, and 35HP added up top. It will LOVE the stock converter and 3.42 rear gear.
The later one (AKA LQ9 & LS1 cam) which is 196/201, .467/.479,116 LSA, is good for a small boost in power.
An even better choice that will run on a stock tune is the BTR (Brian Tooley Racing) Truck Torque cam. 202/202, .511/.511,111+1 LSA. A solid 20+ lb./ft. of torque added from off idle all the way up, and 35HP added up top. It will LOVE the stock converter and 3.42 rear gear.
I'm not against having to do a little bit of tuning if need be. As long as it can start and run on a factory tune. My goal with my 228/230 camshaft was about 400 RWHP. I think my "detuned" goal is 350 RWHP or somewhere around that. That BTR cam doesn't sound bad.
Just to put it all in one list, I have:
-243 heads
-long tubes
-6.0 bored out .020
-LS6 intake
Going into a 1986 Camaro:
-4l60e
-10 bolt LSD, 3.42
-Hooker Aerochamber exhaust
Just a thought. The C6 Vettes come with the 6.0 LS2. Earlier in this thread it was said that the LS6 camshaft is a better choice, however, the single bolt LS2 camshaft is much easier to find and is cheap. I was wondering since my 4L60e is needing a rebuild, what if I go to the Picknpull and find myself a 6l80e and basically copy a C6 LS2 Vette? LS2 clone (slightly lower compression) and a 6 speed should mean that I could use the stock ECM from a C6 Corvette, right?
Edit: just remembered that extensive work will have to be done to get the 6l80e to fit inside the Camaro and a custom driveshaft would have to be made. The 4l60e I have will only require a trans member modification.
Edit: just remembered that extensive work will have to be done to get the 6l80e to fit inside the Camaro and a custom driveshaft would have to be made. The 4l60e I have will only require a trans member modification.
Last edited by Slow'86; Jun 12, 2021 at 10:12 AM.