Malicious_Art

Hi all, chasing an issue with my LS1 swapped c10. I had a lot of milky jelly under my valve covers doing some research it sounded like I might have cracked heads. So I sourced and replaced the heads with some new casting 243 heads that I lapped valves into. I installed with some graphite style head gaskets instead of the mls head gaskets. To help with any imperfections. Stock tty bolts.

but I am still getting the same white jelly and too much water in the catch can. Coolant is going missing from the cooling system, so I am assuming coolant is getting into the top end of the engine. the oil looked fine, and the coolant looked fine. So seems like coolant getting into the top end and most of it getting sucked out into the catch can/intake.

it was getting hotter than I was comfortable with but not sure if that was due to low coolant or head gasket symptoms.

This weekend I popped the valve covers and retorqued the center row of head bolts to 75ish ftp instead of the standard degree method, as when I pulled the first heads off I thought the center bolts were a little looser than I was happy with. Plus they are enough to get too and check.

passanger side slight tighten. Drivers, I f$&d up and untorqued realised and retorqued. So chances are, I’ve killed that head gasket. I’ll wear that.

Put back together. The valve cover seal is blowing out on the drivers side and I’m still getting water in the blow by.

so yeah, I screwed up most likely. But here is my question/s / conundrum:

Im guessing I need to replace at least one head gasket. But going through two sets with the same issue, I don’t want throw more money and the same parts and expect a different result.

anyone have any ideas on what might be causing so much water (coolant) to get into the top end of the engine?

if it can only be head gasket, cracked heads or cracked block, how can I rule out some of the options? Before getting another set of head gaskets and arp bolts this time.

any help appreciated as it’s being boiling my mind and I need to sorted for my sanity. It drives great, it’s just using water and probably now has a trashed drivers head gasket 🤦‍♂️

also apologies for any typos, big fingers - small phone.

Kawabuggy

iTrader: (1)

First off-do you have the ability to do a pressure test on the cooling system? If not, buy, or rent, the equipment and do the test to confirm if you really do have a cooling system leak. While using the pressure tester, if you think you have a coolant leak into one, or more, of the cylinders, remove the spark plugs and while doing the pressure test use a bore scope to check the top of each piston for the accumulation of coolant. You might need to run the pressure tester on the cooling system for 30 minutes or more before you can see the liquid on the piston top(s). If no coolant is pooling on top of any of the pistons, and you have no signs of coolant mixing with the engine oil in the oil pan, then most likely what you are seeing is condensation build up. Or leaking water pump, or leaking heater core, or leaking Y connection at the heater hose connection at the water pump, or leaking vent tube lines, or.... some leak somewhere externally on the engine. If it's just condensation build up-IT's NORMAL. I built a 6.0 for my 1969 GTO and just left the PCV connections on both valve covers OPEN while I was waiting on a catch can. The amount of water that would come out of those two connections when I started the motor cold was very concerning the first time I saw it happen.. But that engine is NOT using, or losing, engine coolant, and there is no coolant getting into the engine oil either after almost 2 years now. My catch can is ALWAYS milky though when I go to empty it. Engine oil is always perfectly fine though. I'm not kidding the first time I started the engine after it had sat for two weeks the amount of water coming out the PCV connection scared me to death.

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

Spark plugs will look brand new in any cylinder that has any coolant that entered the combustion chamber. The top of that piston will be clean as new also. No carbon, as it's literally been steam cleaned....

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

If the OP wasn't losing any coolant, this sounds like an engine that has no issues, but is being driven short distances in cool to cold weather. The only thing that makes this an issue is that coolant is disappearing somewhere.....

Malicious_Art

I don’t have a cooling system pressure tester, do t know anyone with one and no one around here hires tools unfortunately. So I’m stuck with visiting a mechanic or buying the tool.

I am loosing coolant, it seems to fall down to about the top of the fins or lower and I’m seeing the heat sitting around 100-110 degrees Celsius.

here is a pic of what a drive around the block after warming up to operating temperature yielded me in water. I am running red coolant, and this appears clear. But I’m not convinced that it isn’t coolant.

also the valve cover seal blowing like it is, makes me worry about the head gasket.

also some pics from under the valve covers, rockers and catch can when I whipped the covers off to tighter the center head bolts.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

For the most part, the looks like condensation to me under the valve covers. When water gets in the oil, the oil itself gets all milky. Those valve covers look to me like the crank ventilation isn't doing well - which might be plugged hoses with that much crap in there. I would drain the oil personally. If it looks bad you will know.

As mentioned above, if coolant gets into a cylinder it looks pristine.

Before I condemned the engine, I would verify the steam vent corners, hoses, heater core, etc, are not leaking. Not unusual to slow leak at a rear steam vent corner - where it sucks the most to reach.

The bolt stuff you did -- while not the best idea, probably did not ruin the HG. Torquing to 75 probably not a great idea if the bolts are factory. Those are torque to yield, and torque is done with an angle gauge not a load value.

I suspect that your confidence in the HG is low and you will end up replacing them for peace of mind. Which I completely understand

Malicious_Art

Thanks for the feedback. I’m picking up a cheap coolant system tester, hopefully tomorrow. I’ll run the test and see how it goes I guess.

RB04Av

Looks kinda like what happens when people use the valve covers that "look" "good", and that "all the fast cars are running", instead of ones that are suitable for street use. Specifically, looks like the PCV system is disabled, such that all the condensation from combustion that gets into the crankcase, has no way to get back out.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

Cold damp climate? Not getting up to full temp? Low temp thermostat?
That honestly looks pretty bad for just a condensation problem.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

That's a lot of condensation. Are you running on alcohol or operating in an really cold climate?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

I agree completely. That's A LOT of moisture.

theunderlord

He used Celsius, and said "hire" instead of "rent" so I would guess Canada?

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

If he was running a vented breather can he wouldn't be having that much condenastion building up either.

G Atsma

What sort of PCV/vent system are you running? If you trashed it just to run those valve covers it was a huge mistake.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

Well from the looks of it he's using low profile valve covers with no kind of baffeling with some 3/8" hose to a sealed catch can and my guess is there is no PCV or should I say vacuum being pulled through the can via the intake manifold. I wouldn't want that crap going into my intake manifold either but you're certainly not doing the engine any favors by running liitle hoses and a sealed catch can.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

Once again I'm going to share a video of an LSX427 running on a single breather can.

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

I run a -10 line to a vented catch can with my 434. I don’t pull air through the engine. It’s sparkling clean inside. Same way with other builds I’ve done. Works great.
Now…the OP here has a problem. Anyone notice the rust on the steel retainers? If it’s condensation….and it could be from a LOT of sitting without running and it’s being stored in a high humidity garage that cools down at night quick. He says he’s running the red coolant, which will not rust metal, I don’t think? I’m the freaking king of letting stuff sit around without starting for a month or two, and I’ve never seen a milkshake inside an engine like this, except from a headgasket issue, or a busted radiator with a built-In oil cooler and it was mixing inside there. Interesting for sure here. Usually the milkshake or whipped cream…whatever you like to call it, comes from a heavy mix of coolant/oil in the crankcase and the rotating assembly has whipped it up like grandmas mixer. I think further investigating is in order here. Coolant getting in engine somehow, yet the rust on the retainers screams water, not coolant.

Malicious_Art

Thanks all for the comments, I’ll try to answer what I can:

im located in Australia, so we’re in winter atm. Not crazy cold but seeing 4c overnight 8-14c highs.

I had the problem with stock ls valve covers, and had them potentially worse now with the Holley sbc adaptor valve covers. Definitely see the point in the pvc outlets being under sized in those. I’ll look at drilling some new bigger holes out - also ones that align better with the sbc valve covers I’m using to hide the coils. Is 3/8 ok with a bigger valve cover outlet? Or will I need to upsize the hose?

the pvc system is hooked up but with out a valve. Two lines come out of the valve covers T and joint a baffled catch can. That loops back to one of the two throttle bodies. And when it’s been running a while I can see it throw some froth into the throttle. This is what alerted me that I hadn’t solved the issue with the new heads and head gaskets. All 3/8 hose and aluminium hard lines.

are you all suggesting vented instead of looped back engine vac catch cans instead?

I’ve just ran a coolant system pressure test and it’s got a slow leak when cold for sure. Took a few minutes but when from 1.1~ ish bar down to about 0.6bar. So there is a leak somewhere

I’ve done a visual and touch check on the following places:
rad hoses
thermo housing (just replaced and the thermostat)
heater core hoses (all new and new core went in while dealing with this - had a loop back went to a new core)
water pump to the block
steam vent fittings (I’m running two braided lines and T’d them together into the top rad hose)

all with no signs of moisture.

im going to run it again and several more times but any other thoughts on where it could be?

if I can find anything after a few more runs through I’ll start pulling plugs for signs.

also the retainers aren’t rusty, it’s baked on oil, it was a junkyard engine. I’ve cleaned parts as I go as best I could but didn’t see the point in going too hard there as it was just gonna get filthy again anyway.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

I'm all for venting to atmosphere and keeping that stuff out of the intake and throttle body so I would suggest going to a breather can/vented catch can with 10AN lines off each valve cover and cap off the intake and throttle body. BTW you're really not pulling much in the way of vacuum from the throttle body so you do not really have positve crankcase ventillation going on there. If you're going to retain PCV and stick to a sealed catch can then I'd suggest running the 3/8 inch hose from the driver side valve cover through the sealed catch can and from the can to an inline PCV valve just before that line connects to the port on the intake manifold and as for the line on the passenger valve cover you can connect it to the port on the throttle body and you will then have PCV or positive crankcase ventillation.


Attached is an image of an LS1 setup which has a line that comes off the rear of the driver side valve cover and ties into the rear of the passenger side valve cover and from there through an inline PCV valve before it connects to the intake manifold The front port on the passenger valve cover would connect to the throttle body.

Malicious_Art

Thanks worth a look. I’m actually running my own custom made twin throttle tunnel ram intake. So if I was to run two seperate I’d just link them up to each throttle. Maybe with a can on each.

But my concern is the size of the hose and the way the baffles are set up on the Holley covers. They aren’t pretty basic. May as well just run a bigger open mouth line. If I run a bigger line, might be worth just going to a vent can as the baffled can I have only had 3/8ish hose.

I have wrapped all the coolant outlets I can in tissue and am keeping the system pressurised while I check the plugs. 3 down all dirty - actually running lean which I knew. But good to confirm on the plugs I guess.

is there a hidden outlet in the water pump for failure? I know some have it, not sure on the LS?