Yeah I guess it would throw the ABS INOP light but it does that now when I race the car due to the 28" tall tire. I deleted ABS on the 99 car but more work is needed to the brake system. I've been looking at doing a manual brake booster along with brake calipers and rotors from Strange Engineering.

 

This entire argument seems silly. Guys running mid 11's with big inch strokers with the best heads money can buy so they think just because they couldn't run 10's no one can.

I went 10's with a NA 4000 lbs GTO way back in 2005.

This should be obvious, but apparently not so I'll explain...

AUTO trans with a proper converter, 15" wheels with good drag radials or slicks, some suspension work, and knowing how to drag race. This was with my true daily driver because it was the only car I owned at the time. The nearest 1/4 mile was a 2 hour drive each way as well. Definitely not a race car.

I see you guys are driving manuals with no mention of suspension mods and not using 15" wheels with good drag radials. It doesn't take a race car to run 10's with a little motor even at 4000 lbs just an auto trans which obviously dynos lower and some basic suspension mods.

My current combo is also a 4000 lbs GTO and has been 5.9 in the 1/8th on bracket prep and 6.1 to 6.2 area on no prep front side. Little 377 with stock untouched 241 heads and 20-22 psi from a procharger LOL. Should be very low 9 second car easily in the 1/4 mile I just haven't ran 1/4 mile in several years.

With a manual a great driver can literally pick up a full second or more over an average driver with no changes to the combo.

 

My main argument isn't about your 377, or a GTO. My argument is about running a 10 flat, stock internals 346 LS6, full weight C5 (BIG difference between 10 flat and a 10.75) with only engine bolt ons. If you start changing to an auto trans and high stall converter, 15 inch wheels, etc., you're stretching the bolt-ons concept, and it is no longer a C5Z with an auto trans and 15" wheels. I'm calling running 10 flat on a stock internals C5Z with engine bolt-ons. If you start running carbon fiber everything, install 4.10 gears, and gut the car, that's no longer a C5Z, either. This thread has gone right off the rails, and I've been part of it, for which I am sorry. I think I've made my point, and I never heard anything from the supposedly stock C5Z owner who ran 10 flat. I'm going to stop responding now so that it hopefully gets back to what heads work best for 500hp...

 

So changing the rear gear is not a bolt on? lol.

Do you also think that flycutting pistons isn't a stock bottom end anymore?

I am not sure anyone claimed a full weight c5 going 10 flat with bolt ons though. Gary went 10.9@ 123 in his bolt on 04 Z06 back in 08. Thing had headers, vararam, a light clutch, 4.10s and a trans/diff brace. Had the passenger seat removed and a 1/4 tank.

Plenty of other guys that went low to high 10s with bolt ons.

These solid times really come down to getting the car off the line, that is the simple thing of it. Cut a 1.3-1.5 60ft and a 10 second pass is locked in the bag as long as you aren't missing a gear. Gary's car was 3300 lbs with him in it for that time and Gary is a pretty big guy if you have never met him in person. But the time him, Rob, and the others spent dialing those cars in back then is very impressive. The driver mod in a vette (manual vette) really makes or breaks the run. Knowing how to make it short track will tell you how the rest of the run is going to go. That first 330' is key. Anything past that is just hitting the gears quick and efficiently.

My car with 470 wheel (on a complete **** run) and still trapped 130 in positive DA.

Some Facts:

• Rob's car was light, how light? I am not sure, it was always hush hush. But remember, he raced this thing at WCF a lot so it was caged as well. But the best bolt on time was 10.02@135 before the 388 went in and the thing was going almost 150.
• Rob's car also had 4.10s in it.
  • Still a bolt on.
• Rob's car had a pretty light/small clutch
  • Still a bolt on
• Rob's car was cam only
• Rob could drive the car like nobody's business.

 

Yeah, but isn't HioSSilver talking about a stock LS6 with stock cam? I don't consider a cammed car a stock bottom end car.

 

I guess I suck at making my point as usual so I’ll cut right to the point.

JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT DO IT DOESN’T MEAN NO ONE ELSE CAN.

 

I agree with you. But I'll never believe a 10 flat from the car I previously described.....

 

BTW, LOVE your Sig about the bees!! Also, and I think I've commended you before on your car. But I'll say it again. You and RonSSnova both have awesome cars for the displacement you guys are giving up. I'm sure you'd both whip my ***, lol. You remind me of myself in my younger years. Enjoy your youth, because like everything else, it never lasts. I never thought I'd get old!!!

 

Im nothing special boost is easy that is why I went that route. I’ve had big inch strokers that cost more and weren’t as fast. I also bought my procharger before prices went stupid. The same kit I have is over 10g now when I paid 6g.

not sure what age has to do with it lol. There are teenagers and girls faster than me by a lot. I’m 52 years old so younger than you but certainly not young lol.

 

Who said anything about our big strokers not able to run 10's? Just because we haven't ran a 10 does not mean that it couldn't. I do agree that nobody has mentioned suspension setup and I have a good suspension but probably not dialed in to provide the best traction. Another thing..You don't need 500hp to go 10's just a really light car and driver can get you there for less.

 

Wasn't it you earlier in the thread that said you find it offensive that someone claims their 346" motor made as much or more power than your 427? Maybe I'm mistaken and it was someone else. This person also went on to say they only ran mid 11's at like 125 mph with that 427...LOL.

I trapped higher than that with smaller cubic inches NA in a heavier car with an IRS that is inferior to a corvette IRS. I know people said my GTO is irrelevant because you are talking about corvettes well the GTO is an inferior and heavier chassis than a corvette and I've literally done what you guys are saying can't be done. Because of this I'm confident it can be done with a lighter corvette or fbody.

...and yes a 346 can make as much peak power as your 427 it just wouldn't likely have the same torque and possibly less street friendly but certainly can be done and still be streetable. In a drag race gears or converter, launch rpm etc could have that little 346 always in the upper rpm range so low rpm torque would be less important at the drag strip.

To the other guy yes absolutely a cam only setup would still be considered a sbe if the block, crank, rods, and pistons are stock.

Basically, sounds like guys that aren't drag racers telling drag racers they can't do things that have already been done. I say this because I have also seen lots of things that I didn't think could be done with various combos actually happen in front of my eyes because I'm at the track 10+ times a year. It has nothing to do with me being better than anyone because I'm not I just know what I've done when you put in the testing time at the track and what I've seen others do who know what they are doing.

A manual trans car with bolt ons and all the suspension setup done and setup correctly along with the right gear, weight reduction, and an outstanding experienced driver can do some pretty amazing things.

If all you do is build a stroker and don't address suspension, tires, weight reduction and only show up at the track once every couple years you are going to be way slower period.

Also you ran what you ran. What you ran is what you can currently do.

 

https://media.tenor.com/CpUhF7EeYXgA...yin-preach.gif

 

Yes. And when you start running 10s, there's a Helluva difference between a 10.30 and a 10.00. The quicker you go, the harder it is to knock 1/10 or 2/10 of a second off. People see a big difference between a 9.99 and a 10.10. Even though it's only 11/100s of a second, one is a 9, and the other isn't. And, like EBC5 said, "Robs" car had a cam. BOOM-No longer just a bolt-ons car. I do agree with him that a change in gears is a bolt-on. But I think you're going too far when you say a stall converter is a bolt-on. On many cars, it could be fairly said it's a bolt-on. But on a C5, there's more involved. Also, an auto trans means its no longer a C5Z. 15" tires mean its not a Z. It all depends on your definition of bolt on, and your definition of a C5Z06. He also mentioned a passenger seat being removed. In my opinion, that's crossing the line. Also my opinion, but I've always considered bolt-ons to be restricted to engine bolt-ons. Its all in what one considers a bolt-on. When you start removing seats, and gutting other things.....I mean, where do you draw the line? Carpeting gutted? Plexiglass windows? AC compressor and A/C equipment removed? Remove the headlight assemblies? You wouldn't know because the C5 has the retractable headlights. When I called BS, I called it on a fully equipped C5, as it came from GM, with only engine bolt-ons. I still say no way a C5Z06 could run a 10 flat with stock internals engine, and only engine bolt-ons. Did the Z in question have the cat's in place? One person's bolt-ons, lightened car is another person's gutted, aluminum flywheeled, carbon fibered drive shafted, 4.10 geared, no A/C equipment, plexiglass windowed, 15" wheeled, no passengers seat, no radio, C5Z06. Which it isnt any longer with those mods......

 

I have to disagree with the post saying you can make as much power with a 346 as you can with a 427. Sure, there are cases of smart guys, like some guys here, can match a 427 for power. But with top engine guys building both motors, its just not happening. If you build both for maximum power, the 427 holds all the cards, and will make more power every time a pure race engine effort is made. Even in a super high perf street engine, more cubes hold all the advantages. Otherwise, why offer more cubes? This is analogous to the 160lb middleweight fighter kicking former Heavyweight champion Vitali Klitscho's ***. Klitscho stands 6 foot 7, and weighs 270lbs. Like saying a built to the max 5.3 will make the same power as a 6.2. Everything equal, it's not gonna happen. If a 346 made the same power as a 427, the C5R woulda had an LS1 in it, instead of the 427.....

 

If the OP is still here, my recommendation would be to contact Tony Mamo. Tony had a 346 with AFR heads and a 224/228 cam in a 6 speed C5Z. It went low 11s@125mph.....Over 20 years ago......

 

Post#131

Your comment suggests my LSX427 is somehow underperforming and you find it funny that it only went 11.6 @ 125 on a 28x10.5 slick.

Questions: Where you there and did you see the pass? Do you think a car tuned by a notable tuner that showed 540 rwhp and 500 ft lbs @ 5,100 can't run a 10 second pass?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...yno-pulls.html

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you the same guy that's been looking to step it up with a Procharged stroker engine? That's what I'm going to do.

 

So you want me to take my engine apart.....on vid.....lol

There's way more than 100 guys on the corvette forum that don't know wtf their doing.......it's in the thousands.

You wouldn't believe it then either. It's exactly what i said it was.


If you pay attention to details and do what the engine needs instead of what you want it should make good power.

I think there was a fella in this thread that said his 6.0 made 600whp......definitely doable. But I'm sure he crossed t's and dotted his insight.




Thanks man.....yea there's stuff you learn along the way. That's why I've always been a proponent if bolt ons.....it teaches you what matters to get the car to move.

These engines are pretty good......just build on what's there is my motto.

Acceleration is where it's at baby!

I like refined na stuff. Boost is easy

Read below for my opinion on aluminum flywheels.

Lightweight valvetrain isn't just for 1/4 mile stuff......it's easier on parts. It's paying attention to the parts you buy. Some parts will add weight......some will reduce weight. Weight in the valvetrain is almost never good for anything.....including reliability.


Aluminum flywheel isn't anything extreme......that's standard fare. As far as I'm concerned most aluminum flywheel set ups are just basic bitch ****. Idk why people think heavy clutches that weigh 50 or even 6p+ lbs should be anywhere near a hotrod. They're for dump trucks. It's odd that people think a v8 needs that when honda clutch setup is typically around 30lb......no one complains about those pos being unstreetable.

Vette boy/ RobZ bolt on ls6 was a bit extreme.....but like me i bet he knows what he could do to improve upon that 10.0.

None of the cars we did had light weight brakes.....so when i said the times i posted would be easy to beat.

And don't discount constructive weight reduction. I don't gut my car. To me that's shitty.....no reason to destroy the car to make it fast.....unless it's a 5br0. You have to destroy those.



****......some of these guys turn these things into old sbc's with their results. 2005 is to kind lol😁


That cam is in my 5.7. Darth gave it to me.....if you think it takes mamo heads to get it done you're 100% wrong. Not that mamo doesn't do good stuff because he does. But apparently old gmpp 243s with a little touch up by me does pretty ok too......and from what i can tell the it's not the intake port that matters as much as alot of people think.

 

yup....stock ls6

Rob had a few engines in that car.....sometimes it's tuff to keep up with. He and I pm'd some about his bolt on ls6 so I'm pretty sure about what it was. But he's not one to reveal everything.


Idk why anyone would cry about a gear change. Sometimes it's very effective. .....and sometimes less is more.

Robz c5z had 4.10s....but with a 27" tire. But a 3.89 wuth a 26" tire is pretty much identical overall gearing.

And no his car wasn't auto swapped.

 

Nothing offensive about it.......it's what happened.

That fast intake is wrong for that thing.

I went 11.5@124 with the bolt on ls6......before I ever put a drag radial on it. Did that on 18s. Had 4.10s in it beating off the rev limiter at the 1000' mark.....3.90s really helped it mph.

 

What it may or may not be capable of is irrelevant. I went high 10’s at a higher trap speed with a 408 in a 4000 lbs race weight GTo back in 2005-2006 with out of the box aft 225s and an old fast 90 intake.

You ran what you ran.

​​​​​​….and no I have zero intention of doing a stroker. I may switch from the f1a-94 to the new f1r-103 or go turbo on my 377 until it blows then build a 388 or something with a stock stroke.