This is a friend's setup, so I haven't researched the build and am looking for comments. Pistons Smacked the valves, some type of PTV issue. Piston was pierced by valve stem, motor seized, block cracked.

Setup:
Cam = Comp XE-R 224/228 114+1 113CL .581/.588 Lift.
Heads = AFR 205's milled .024", 2.02 Int, 1.60 Exh.

Should there be an issue with this setup? I was surprised a 224/228 would have PTV issues?

Would like to define what is wrong here for sure. Is it possible we have the wrong 2.08 valves or a bad cam grind?

TIA.

 

uhh.......... was it brand new? as in, did you put it together and started it and blew it up? or did it last a while. big difference

 

This was a brand new motor, new AFR 205 heads, new Comp Cam, etc. Smacked valves and everything broke loose while they were testing the setup around 1500-2000rpm. Important tech specs above.

I want to focus on PTV for the moment and anyone that has direct experience or knowledge of where this setup should have been in relation to PTV clearance.

 

A cam card should have cam with the cam. If it did what are the specs on the car. Also did yall just bolt the heads on and slap the cam in and go from there. Did you use a stock timing gears and chang the chain or did you do the holl think gears and all. Did you turn the motor over by hand and check P/V clearance.

 

Does anyone read? The cam specs are posted above. The mechanic that did the install has done over 100 LS1 Head Cam jobs before.

I want the assumption to be it was installed straight up dot to dot. Was setup with a non-adjustable Dual Rollmaster (believe non-adj). I want to assume the Rollmaster was setup properly and focus on if there should have been a PTV clearance issue.

 

Good lord....

That combo was my exact plan.... let us know what you find and good luck...




btw, have you called Tony at AFR about this??? Did you get this cam from AFR or the same place you bought the heads from????

 

No dont take efence. Yes we can read and we are trying to help. Most time when you have P/V clearnce it is do to duration. This is y i asked if you had the cam card. Not every cam is the same so they give you the specs of that cam. This will help if you give us the specs on the car not of your head. You dont want to assum that it was Dot to dot you need to konw. If there was any more advance with it already ground into the cam the you tage. If it cleared then they did not break in the spings and it broke one or it had vavle float do to the spring not being broken in and it taked that way.

So this shop installed a cam and heads and did not check clearance.

 

Assume it is dot to dot for the discussions sake of looking at the build up in this post. Of course it will be triple checked on tear down.

I posted the cam specs above and yes I have the complete cam card. Are there some missing specs in the first post that you are interested in?

I don't really see a PTV issue on paper. Does anyone else?

 

I do not see on paper but there are other factor that we dont know that can add up. Like the gasket crushed a little exstra .009 or so. Now the heads are mill to .024. What if they are .030 to .035 there is even less clearance. Lot of factor here that we just dont know. Also is this the AFR comp cam or is it a comp cam that he got form the install place. I thought that the afr cam was a 114+4or 2 not 1.

 

You should always check PTV with clay, but its too late for that. Was the cam checked with a degree wheel to verify the events?

 

I can tell you there is adequate clearance with that setup from my experience.

Was it dot to dot? Sounds like it was off a tooth.

 

I have used a similar cam (224/228/112 +2) installed @ 110 ICL with LS6 heads milled .040 and 2.05 valves and it didnt need any notches. It was pretty close though.

 

Thanks for the reality check on paper guys. Looks good to me too. At this point we're going back to check dot to dot, mis-ground cam, over-milled heads, larger than spec'd intake valve, etc.

Most people don't do PTV unless you are in a Mid-230+ duration cam. Most wouldn't PTV a 218/224 cam or a stock cam for that matter. The above combo was sold as a match working setup. Many people install cams without degreeing our non-adjustable timing setups.

The only thing it protects you from is cases where a manufacturer screws something major up, which is what this looks like. It's easy to sit back and armchair it and say you should have degree'd or you should have PTV'd, but this setup shouldn't have required it.

I bet 90% of the head/cam installs are done like this unless you get into crazy high duration or heavily milled heads.

Will go dig some more. Wasn't my car fortunately. This WAS the AFR 205 and rec'd cam that blew up. Could be anything at this point. I remember there was a bad batch of Comp grinds awhile back at MTI... unrelated I guess?

FWIW, I don't want to get into vendor bashing but this is the AFR 224/228 114+1 cam via Comp Cam. There is too much left that needs to be verified on the build. AFR's position was, "Well that's our recommended package, but you should have checked the PTV anyhow".

 

Clay is crap. You can only tell if it hits or not and even then it is realy hard to tell. What if you have just a little and i mean just a little like .002 or .005 vavle float witch you will and you clearance was .001 now you have a vavle that has gone deeper than the piston. You need a dial indicator. Mesure 10degres before and after. Max lift does not matter.

Just my .02 cents.

 

P.S. Noone is worried about the Race Lobe ramps of the XE-R with a 224/228 for PTV? What a mess the motor is.

 

You really need to check where the cam is installed in the motor. Not just dot-to-dot, but where exactly the intake centerline is.

There is nothing wrong with the XE-R lobes. If anything, these lobes will help PtV more than hurt compared to a slower ramped lobes.

 

You are serious??? That is what AFR told you... good lord

 

if i remember right Tony said the 205's have an extra .015" clearance before milling. also im going to assume that 2.08 intake valve number in the body of your thread is a typo?

 

We should have the 2.02 valves from AFR in our 205's. We're wondering if someone how got the 2.08's by mistake contributing to any PTV issues. Just checking everything. We should have 2.02's.

Right the extra .015" clearance should almost cancel out the .024" milling. Something has to be off somewhere in the setup, ie: chain off a tooth or bad cam grind?!?

Further Notes. Every piston hit an intake valve and left a mark. 1 broke a stem, pierced the piston and locked the motor cracking the block. Brand new LS6 motor Trashed.

 

If every intake valve hit, it sounds like the cam was installed a little too advanced.