Question about Patriot Performance Stage 3 heads.
11-24-2004, 10:07 PM
#1
Question about Patriot Performance Stage 3 heads. Ok as you can probably tell by my sig I need some stage 3 heads for my 408. I plan on getting them around christmas time, or just after. It is becoming more apparent the closer I get to christmas that I am not going to be able to lay down $3000 for heads. Well Patriot has a set of LS6 "style" heads that flow 322 cfm with a 4.125 bore. Just about what I need and they are only $1595.
The two questions are what in the hell does LS6 "style" mean?? And I have heard some not so great things about their product but not really sure what, I really havent paid that much attention to it. Are their heads really that bad of quality?? What is the major complaint about them?? I am really looking at a set as that price is going ot be more in my price range.
The two questions are what in the hell does LS6 "style" mean?? And I have heard some not so great things about their product but not really sure what, I really havent paid that much attention to it. Are their heads really that bad of quality?? What is the major complaint about them?? I am really looking at a set as that price is going ot be more in my price range.
11-24-2004, 10:15 PM
#2
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Why not try the AFR 225 heads? I have nothing against Patroit, they may be the best heads out there. But I have read a bit on the design elements incorporated into the AFR offerings, and to me their design makes sense. At the end of the day, what is another grand, when one has already spent so much.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
11-24-2004, 10:27 PM
#3
If you get the Patriot heads, make sure that you get good name brand valves. I think it is a $100 option. LS-6 "style" means that they are 6.0 truck heads. The combustion chambers are welded up, then sent to Canfield for heat treating. When they return, the combustion chamber is then cut to the size you request. Anywhere from 59-72 cc's. 6.0 truck heads carry the same port as the LS-6, hence the LS-6 "style". You should have them checked out, flowed and check the valve job, before you install them to make sure everything is up to par. I personally would wait for another $500 or so bucks and go with TEA, Futral, APE, or Force Fed.
11-24-2004, 10:35 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
If you get the Patriot heads, make sure that you get good name brand valves. I think it is a $100 option. LS-6 "style" means that they are 6.0 truck heads. The combustion chambers are welded up, then sent to Canfield for heat treating. When they return, the combustion chamber is then cut to the size you request. Anywhere from 59-72 cc's. 6.0 truck heads carry the same port as the LS-6, hence the LS-6 "style". You should have them checked out, flowed and check the valve job, before you install them to make sure everything is up to par. I personally would wait for another $500 or so bucks and go with TEA, Futral, APE, or Force Fed.
Well TEAs would be $2600, Futral wanted $3100!!!! I dont know what everyone elses would be. Thats almost $1000 difference. Does Force Fed do their own heads?? Or do they sell someone elses and clean everything up to your specs? Its just going to be hard for me to come up with $2500-$3000 but I can swing $1500-$1800.
11-24-2004, 10:37 PM
#5
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I have PP LS6 stage III on my 432 stroker and the work great. I ordered a set of 225's but took to long to get so I ordered a set of PP's to use until I got my 225's. Even when I get the 225's I think I will keep the PP's on the motor since they work so great. They made good power from 2500 to 6500 and still pulling, hope to post a Dyno jet graph soon. So far it has made 499rwhp on a mustang dyno so should be over 550 on a dynojet. Get the PP and have them hand finished you will be happy.
11-24-2004, 10:38 PM
#6
Originally Posted by hydfixer
I have PP LS6 stage III on my 432 stroker and the work great. I ordered a set of 225's but took to long to get so I ordered a set of PP's to use until I got my 225's. Even when I get the 225's I think I will keep the PP's on the motor since they work so great. They made good power from 2500 to 6500 and still pulling, hope to post a Dyno jet graph soon. So far it has made 499rwhp on a mustang dyno so should be over 550 on a dynojet. Get the PP and have them hand finished you will be happy.
Who did you buy from and who did the hand finishing?? And if you dont mind me asking how much was the hand porting extra??
11-24-2004, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by necrocannibal
Well TEAs would be $2600, Futral wanted $3100!!!! I dont know what everyone elses would be. Thats almost $1000 difference. Does Force Fed do their own heads?? Or do they sell someone elses and clean everything up to your specs? Its just going to be hard for me to come up with $2500-$3000 but I can swing $1500-$1800.
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11-24-2004, 10:48 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by necrocannibal
Who did you buy from and who did the hand finishing?? And if you dont mind me asking how much was the hand porting extra??
11-24-2004, 11:32 PM
#9
Give Gunnar a call at Patriot. He will take care of you. Force Fed uses Patriot's CNC design and then assembles them and hand finishes them in house. There have been a few people when Patriot first started that had issues, but since then, no one to my knowledge has had any issues.
11-25-2004, 01:31 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Black02SS
Force Fed uses Patriot's CNC design and then assembles them and hand finishes them in house.
11-25-2004, 05:10 AM
#11
Originally Posted by ForceFed HP
the way we get patriot heads is just the cylinder head that has bronze guides that havent been honed and larger valve seats that have not been cut for a valves nor have they been milled. what we then do is hone the guides to spec for valves used, cut out seats and install seats even thought they have new seats already and we use liquid nitrogen to chill the seat and immedietly install the seat so when the seat warms back up it will have a .009-.010 press fit so that seat will never come out unless you want it to. we then cut the seat, blend the seat to the cumbustion camber, bowl hog the valve bowls and seat. after this we begin our hand porting/polishing. so you are correct and incorrect in the statement of us using patriot assembled heads. we are basically using there cnc program. most of our 5.3 and 5.7 heads we sell are done local at total engine airflow then hand finished (at least till they closed doors a few days ago for the move) but we always use patriot ls6 style cores and do the above work to them. this is not something people dont know or something we are trying to hide. if someone is uncomfortable using patriot heads we wont but i have found no reason through our testing that anyone should be uncomfortable with patriot products.
by the way i dont take it as a flame. i am actually glad to see someone doing homework.
by the way i dont take it as a flame. i am actually glad to see someone doing homework.
11-25-2004, 10:12 AM
#12
Originally Posted by Black02SS
Give Gunnar a call at Patriot. He will take care of you. Force Fed uses Patriot's CNC design and then assembles them and hand finishes them in house. There have been a few people when Patriot first started that had issues, but since then, no one to my knowledge has had any issues.
I am a little confused about something. If I get Patriot heads are they going to need some hand finishing?? Or can I just buy what I need from Patriot and slap them on my car?
11-25-2004, 10:39 AM
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Talk to Patriot directly about their heads or speak to Speed Inc about their FI setup using PP heads. They will be able to give you information on options etc. I would definitely go with an upgraded valve.
11-25-2004, 10:43 AM
#15
I think that you have to weigh the gains youll see from spending another thousand dollars on the heads. It might not be a night and day difference in performance. If you get the PPs with good springs and good valves, I think youll have a good performing setup for considerably less money. It may not be on the very bleeding edge of performance, but then again, you didnt buy a c5-r block either, right?
Take this with a grain of salt since ive still got stock internals. Im only going by what ive seen locally and what ive read.
-Tony
Take this with a grain of salt since ive still got stock internals. Im only going by what ive seen locally and what ive read.
-Tony
11-25-2004, 10:44 AM
#16
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There are quite a few guys with superstrokers making great power with PP heads. (A couple of them posted in this post)
Find out what options they went with. The valve upgrade is a big one but look into their handfinishing options as well.
Find out what options they went with. The valve upgrade is a big one but look into their handfinishing options as well.
11-25-2004, 06:20 PM
#17
Originally Posted by hydfixer
It's easy to spend other peoples money, half these guys recomending heads probley still have stock heads. Get PP if thats what you can aford I am sure you will be happy.
EDIT: I just found this. You should really look into it.....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-sales-specials/241276-thanksgiving-sale-ffhp-heads.html Last edited by Beast96Z; 11-25-2004 at 06:39 PM.
11-26-2004, 08:37 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
I've got AFR's, ported by TEA, and used to have the Stage 3 Patriot's. The Patriot heads should be fine if you do the above mentioned things like upgrading the valves to a name brand, which you can order through Patriot, and get them hand finished, which I would have a professional other than Patriot do. If FFHP indeed does what they say in the above post, I would do that. This way you can get all your options from one place.
EDIT: I just found this. You should really look into it..... https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241276
EDIT: I just found this. You should really look into it.....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241276I will be giving FFHP a call tomorrow, if they are open.
