This is what the knocking was...
03-30-2005, 11:13 AM
#41
I know APE and possibly a few others had a 402 short block on sale for $3350, maybe you can call around and see what some sponsors can do. Or have one built for you using the mahle piston + rod combo on ebay. For N/A applications it shuld be plenty.
03-30-2005, 11:35 AM
#42
On a $3000 budget your not even halfway to getting EVERYTHING back together with a 383. You should stick with a stock crank/rods. Forged piston shortblock maybe, but anythign other and you will be well over budget. The bigger motors arent really a "bang for the buck" type deal at all. All the 400 inch motors in this area so far are getting their *** kicked by stock bottom ends lol
I know a few places that do a 347 reasonably, and some that do them reasonably priced, but not reasonably assembled unfortunately. Honestly though for your situation like I said Id recommend stock bottom end all day long, throw some ARP rod bolts in it and go.
If you do want to build a motor, chances are slim you can use your existing block. If you have some local around here they will need a core block/crank/rods, but there is some places without core charges
I know a few places that do a 347 reasonably, and some that do them reasonably priced, but not reasonably assembled unfortunately. Honestly though for your situation like I said Id recommend stock bottom end all day long, throw some ARP rod bolts in it and go.
If you do want to build a motor, chances are slim you can use your existing block. If you have some local around here they will need a core block/crank/rods, but there is some places without core charges
03-30-2005, 12:13 PM
#43
the problem is you can only go .010" over on those sleeves maybe a little more. thats 1 one thousandth of an inch. Not much at all. Maybe an all bore motor, but $3000 will barely buy you a good stroker crank. You can get cheap ones for $1500, doesnt including machining assembly, balancing, rods, pistons, lifters, oil pump, head gaskets.
A 347 you can get ready to drop in with all other stock parts for $2200-$2800
Or you can get a fresh stock shortblock for $600-$1200, drop it in and go.
I do this stuff all day every day for a living, I have a few contacts that can help
Remember in addition to the shortblock, you need another $1000 worth of miscellaneous parts. Were not trying to steer you away form going fast, were trying to make sure someone doesnt tell you they can build you this 383 for $3299, and then your left with a motor and no more money for all the supporting parts. I see it happen all the time, a lot of guys on EFA for example fall victim to someone telling them abc will do this or that and they end up WAYYY dissapointed
And anymotor bigger then 347 will SUCK horribly without very good heads on it
A 347 you can get ready to drop in with all other stock parts for $2200-$2800
Or you can get a fresh stock shortblock for $600-$1200, drop it in and go.
I do this stuff all day every day for a living, I have a few contacts that can help
Remember in addition to the shortblock, you need another $1000 worth of miscellaneous parts. Were not trying to steer you away form going fast, were trying to make sure someone doesnt tell you they can build you this 383 for $3299, and then your left with a motor and no more money for all the supporting parts. I see it happen all the time, a lot of guys on EFA for example fall victim to someone telling them abc will do this or that and they end up WAYYY dissapointed
And anymotor bigger then 347 will SUCK horribly without very good heads on it
Last edited by GrannySShifting; 03-30-2005 at 12:21 PM.
03-30-2005, 12:38 PM
#44
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
the problem is you can only go .010" over on those sleeves maybe a little more. thats 1 one thousandth of an inch. Not much at all. Maybe an all bore motor, but $3000 will barely buy you a good stroker crank. You can get cheap ones for $1500, doesnt including machining assembly, balancing, rods, pistons, lifters, oil pump, head gaskets.
A 347 you can get ready to drop in with all other stock parts for $2200-$2800
Or you can get a fresh stock shortblock for $600-$1200, drop it in and go.
I do this stuff all day every day for a living, I have a few contacts that can help
Remember in addition to the shortblock, you need another $1000 worth of miscellaneous parts. Were not trying to steer you away form going fast, were trying to make sure someone doesnt tell you they can build you this 383 for $3299, and then your left with a motor and no more money for all the supporting parts. I see it happen all the time, a lot of guys on EFA for example fall victim to someone telling them abc will do this or that and they end up WAYYY dissapointed
And anymotor bigger then 347 will SUCK horribly without very good heads on it
A 347 you can get ready to drop in with all other stock parts for $2200-$2800
Or you can get a fresh stock shortblock for $600-$1200, drop it in and go.
I do this stuff all day every day for a living, I have a few contacts that can help
Remember in addition to the shortblock, you need another $1000 worth of miscellaneous parts. Were not trying to steer you away form going fast, were trying to make sure someone doesnt tell you they can build you this 383 for $3299, and then your left with a motor and no more money for all the supporting parts. I see it happen all the time, a lot of guys on EFA for example fall victim to someone telling them abc will do this or that and they end up WAYYY dissapointed
And anymotor bigger then 347 will SUCK horribly without very good heads on it
I really do appreciate all of the input and do realize that the 347 may be the way to go. What are the pro's and con's of a 347 vs. a fresh shortblock 346? Which would you recommend I go with?
03-30-2005, 12:42 PM
#45
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That suck man. 3 months ago when my 4.8 was killed I put in a LS1 and 3 days later I started to get a knocking. 3 days later. Come to find out some tiny piece of metal(from the machine shop Im amost likely) got stuck on 2 of my new pistons and causing some dimples with sharp enough edges to hit the heads and scar them up a bit. 3 F'n days! Yuk! Luckily the pistons were fixable and the heads as well but it still sucked. Hell I hadnt even sprayed the LS1 yet when it happened!
03-30-2005, 12:56 PM
#46
A fresh stock shortblock, as in a takeout motor from agood running car stock. These guys by 408s like candy an every now and then you see decent milage stock motors go for 600-2000 depending on if it has heads or not, stock short out of a Z06 etc etc.
Stock motor woudl be the cheap way out, and not like the stock motors arent all that strong just not for the big nitrous hit or anything. I would a) find a good condition used stock motor, put ARP rod bolts in it ($100) lifters ($200) oilpump ($150) and we have used some budget heads with very good or better results for $1400-$1500. $3000 there would get you a 430-460 hp roughly complete
or b) get a forged piston shortblock and put stock heads on it for now for around $2300-$2500. You can get good rods for another $600, but unless your going past 7000 or spraying it hard, the stock rods are very good and will do just about anything your average guy will do. $3000 will get you lifters, oilpump shortblock etc, and couple months down the road and $500 to $1000 in nitrous setup and your in the 550 hp area
Problem with a 408 or something for example is $3600 for your short, another $500 for misc internal parts, but unless you have a good set of heads $2000+ its going to starve
Stock motor woudl be the cheap way out, and not like the stock motors arent all that strong just not for the big nitrous hit or anything. I would a) find a good condition used stock motor, put ARP rod bolts in it ($100) lifters ($200) oilpump ($150) and we have used some budget heads with very good or better results for $1400-$1500. $3000 there would get you a 430-460 hp roughly complete
or b) get a forged piston shortblock and put stock heads on it for now for around $2300-$2500. You can get good rods for another $600, but unless your going past 7000 or spraying it hard, the stock rods are very good and will do just about anything your average guy will do. $3000 will get you lifters, oilpump shortblock etc, and couple months down the road and $500 to $1000 in nitrous setup and your in the 550 hp area
Problem with a 408 or something for example is $3600 for your short, another $500 for misc internal parts, but unless you have a good set of heads $2000+ its going to starve
03-31-2005, 09:57 AM
#48
Arctic, I dont know if that head is toast or not, but if it is junk and youre just going to throw it out, PM me. Im looking to buy an unusable head (preferably for dirt cheap) so that I can cut it up and take pictures of the port cross sections. Itll help the home porters keep from grinding into a water jacket.
04-03-2005, 01:27 PM
#52
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Arctic, I dont know if that head is toast or not, but if it is junk and youre just going to throw it out, PM me. Im looking to buy an unusable head (preferably for dirt cheap) so that I can cut it up and take pictures of the port cross sections. Itll help the home porters keep from grinding into a water jacket.
I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with it yet. How much you looking to pay? I'm not sure how much shipping would be on this beast either.
04-03-2005, 01:28 PM
#53
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Look around locally and see who has put together and impressive big motor car. It hasnt happend yet lol
Why do you say that?I'm going to be honing and re-sleeving my engine, so I won't be buying another shortblock. I like the idea of keeping the original motor anyways.
04-03-2005, 07:46 PM
#55
Originally Posted by ArcticZ28
Why do you say that?I'm going to be honing and re-sleeving my engine, so I won't be buying another shortblock. I like the idea of keeping the original motor anyways.
Because it has not happen yet. Stay stock cubes youll be happier in the end.
Ask around. Go to the local tracks and watch, ask around. Also ask how many thousand and thousand's of dollars are in there motor's. Not including tuning. I am not trying to steer you in the wrong direction. Just ask around the local area. I know for a fact it will cost way over $3,000 for 382 build.
Hope this helps.
04-03-2005, 07:52 PM
#56
Just because most stuff around has been put together without realizing a $7000 motor needs another $7000 in supporting hardware it seems like. More then one $15,000 400 inch motor getting outrun by 346s with way less invested
I hope if you decide in the end you really want to sleeve your block, you have someone reputable do it. I have to say theres only 3 or 4 people in the world I would let sleeve one of those blocks, and its cheaper to buy a brand new block then go threw the cost of sleeving a block
I say this because Ive known dozens of people go way deeper then they thought, and end up not getting what they paid for. You couldnt pay me to run 98% of peoples sleeved blocks with all the problems guys have. Post on here and if someone had an issue with some of their motors, I wouldnt touch them
I like the idea of keepin the original motor too, but cleaned up in a bag on the shelf is where I put mine. Numbers matching is a meaningless term they are coded to individual cars or anything
I dont care what people will tell you that are SELLING you a motor, I do this stuff for a living, and not too many people build a motor worth investing $7000-$15000 in and not a single one around here save Joe Overton. If its not stock cubes your going to be $7000 deep minimum by the time you get to use that shortblock, trust me.
It is not feasible on a budget to sleeve a block, buy a stroker crank etc. youll be happier with a good set of budget heads (Ive put together a dozen cars with good heads in the $1500 area that crack most of the $2500 heads asses wide open) Listen to the consumers when your shopping for someone, not the guy trying to pay his rent this month. Unfortunately some will tell you what you want to hear not what you need to hear/or will find out later. Stock crank in fresh stock sleeve aluminum block, or stock crank in iron block, all under $3000, or stock shortblock with some budget heads is the only way to fly.
I hope if you decide in the end you really want to sleeve your block, you have someone reputable do it. I have to say theres only 3 or 4 people in the world I would let sleeve one of those blocks, and its cheaper to buy a brand new block then go threw the cost of sleeving a block
I say this because Ive known dozens of people go way deeper then they thought, and end up not getting what they paid for. You couldnt pay me to run 98% of peoples sleeved blocks with all the problems guys have. Post on here and if someone had an issue with some of their motors, I wouldnt touch them
I like the idea of keepin the original motor too, but cleaned up in a bag on the shelf is where I put mine. Numbers matching is a meaningless term they are coded to individual cars or anything
I dont care what people will tell you that are SELLING you a motor, I do this stuff for a living, and not too many people build a motor worth investing $7000-$15000 in and not a single one around here save Joe Overton. If its not stock cubes your going to be $7000 deep minimum by the time you get to use that shortblock, trust me.
It is not feasible on a budget to sleeve a block, buy a stroker crank etc. youll be happier with a good set of budget heads (Ive put together a dozen cars with good heads in the $1500 area that crack most of the $2500 heads asses wide open) Listen to the consumers when your shopping for someone, not the guy trying to pay his rent this month. Unfortunately some will tell you what you want to hear not what you need to hear/or will find out later. Stock crank in fresh stock sleeve aluminum block, or stock crank in iron block, all under $3000, or stock shortblock with some budget heads is the only way to fly.
Last edited by GrannySShifting; 04-03-2005 at 08:03 PM.
04-03-2005, 11:57 PM
#57
I totally understand what you're saying and I'm not at all trying to argue. You make very valid points and I appreciate the fact that you're trying to show me all sides of the argument and not just what I want to hear. If I wanted someone just to tell me what I wanted to hear I'd ask a politician But at any rate, can we talk offline GrannySS (preferably numbers and my options exactly) ? Shoot me a PM cuz I'd like to talk with your more in depth. As to everyone else, keep the comments and constructive criticism (if needed) coming. You can never be too well informed, especially about a project so critical. Thanks
But at any rate, can we talk offline GrannySS (preferably numbers and my options exactly) ? Shoot me a PM cuz I'd like to talk with your more in depth. As to everyone else, keep the comments and constructive criticism (if needed) coming. You can never be too well informed, especially about a project so critical. Thanks
04-04-2005, 01:24 AM
#58
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You don't need to rebuild that. Just JB weld that ****! LOL! JK man. That sucks. As far as rebuilding it, if you are thinking budget wise, then pistons, clean up hone if it will take the scratch out, new seat installed into head if it's saveable and be done with it. If you want to do it and not worry about if falling apart or something else failing, then I'd say scrap the whole motor and start from scratch! You could proly get more power out of a good set of heads than building a 383 with those heads.
04-04-2005, 10:56 AM
#59
bud, Im super busy right now and not trying to brush you off in anyway but Im known as the hardest guy ever to get ahold of on the sell fone. You can email me at LTOne4Fun@aol.com or try the cell 443-857-7869, but the email is a surefire way to get ahold of me, late night I always sift thru the emails
04-04-2005, 02:38 PM
#60
Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
bud, Im super busy right now and not trying to brush you off in anyway but Im known as the hardest guy ever to get ahold of on the sell fone. You can email me at LTOne4Fun@aol.com or try the cell 443-857-7869, but the email is a surefire way to get ahold of me, late night I always sift thru the emails
That is true, but Jeff is a very helpful person. He has alot going on like the rest of us.