AFR 225 heads..are these the best flowing heads available right now for the LSx eng.
04-24-2005, 09:19 AM
#2
The thing about the AFRs are that they will ALWAYS flow up there with the best of the Stage 2 and 3 LSX heads. Because they are CNC ported, you get high flow every time. It's probably impossible to get burned.
On the other hand, if you are purely looking for super high flow, a hand ported set of heads, whether factory or ported aftermarket, will be even better, but it will cost you plenty. Consider the fact that there are many race teams running ported LS6 heads that flow 350-375 cfm, you'll get the idea that there's more flow if you're willing to pay more.
But you'll be hard pressed to go wrong with the AFR 225s. They are consistently fast.
On the other hand, if you are purely looking for super high flow, a hand ported set of heads, whether factory or ported aftermarket, will be even better, but it will cost you plenty. Consider the fact that there are many race teams running ported LS6 heads that flow 350-375 cfm, you'll get the idea that there's more flow if you're willing to pay more.
But you'll be hard pressed to go wrong with the AFR 225s. They are consistently fast.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
04-24-2005, 09:43 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
The thing about the AFRs are that they will ALWAYS flow up there with the best of the Stage 2 and 3 LSX heads. Because they are CNC ported, you get high flow every time. It's probably impossible to get burned.
On the other hand, if you are purely looking for super high flow, a hand ported set of heads, whether factory or ported aftermarket, will be even better, but it will cost you plenty. Consider the fact that there are many race teams running ported LS6 heads that flow 350-375 cfm, you'll get the idea that there's more flow if you're willing to pay more.
But you'll be hard pressed to go wrong with the AFR 225s. They are consistently fast.
On the other hand, if you are purely looking for super high flow, a hand ported set of heads, whether factory or ported aftermarket, will be even better, but it will cost you plenty. Consider the fact that there are many race teams running ported LS6 heads that flow 350-375 cfm, you'll get the idea that there's more flow if you're willing to pay more.
But you'll be hard pressed to go wrong with the AFR 225s. They are consistently fast.
Who sells/ports them?
.
04-24-2005, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Quickin
How much are a set of 350-375 cfm LS6 heads?
Who sells/ports them?
.
Who sells/ports them?
.
04-24-2005, 09:58 AM
#5
Before this thread gets all soughts of ugly there are a couple of important factors to consider.
Comparing "advertised" flow numbers is total BS. Too many variables...Ive touched on this 10 times already and will continue to do so. If possible, speak to an unbiased "independent" that has had the opportunity to flow all of the heads you are considering on the SAME equipment.
Also, assuming you are building ANY hydraulic roller cammed application, the 225's are going to be almost impossible to beat. They are designed to be extremely efficient from the crack of the valve to .600 lift or so. I've seen a few much larger heads (245cc ish) go a little better at .600-.650, but the area under the curve of the 225's was significantly better. Unless you were to run a solid roller approaching .700 lift (to compensate for valve lash which reduces "net" lift), the bigger head would'nt be the better choice.
Also, there's alot more to making power than big peak flow numbers. Look at how much power alot of people are generating with our 205 cc runner that "only" flows 300 legit CFM's. Not too many people would have believed it 6-12 months ago. Cross sectional area, low and midlift flow numbers, and other variables all play a big role in your final power and TQ output.
There are certainly other good heads out there from sponsors directly to your right, but considering the better casting quality, the flow consistency of the AFR's, and the fact we targeted the design for applications that most of us on this board are building (street/strip cars with .600 ish camshafts), the 225's (or the 205's) are tough to beat when you factor in all the variables.
Good luck with the build and call me at AFR if you have any questions...
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
Comparing "advertised" flow numbers is total BS. Too many variables...Ive touched on this 10 times already and will continue to do so. If possible, speak to an unbiased "independent" that has had the opportunity to flow all of the heads you are considering on the SAME equipment.
Also, assuming you are building ANY hydraulic roller cammed application, the 225's are going to be almost impossible to beat. They are designed to be extremely efficient from the crack of the valve to .600 lift or so. I've seen a few much larger heads (245cc ish) go a little better at .600-.650, but the area under the curve of the 225's was significantly better. Unless you were to run a solid roller approaching .700 lift (to compensate for valve lash which reduces "net" lift), the bigger head would'nt be the better choice.
Also, there's alot more to making power than big peak flow numbers. Look at how much power alot of people are generating with our 205 cc runner that "only" flows 300 legit CFM's. Not too many people would have believed it 6-12 months ago. Cross sectional area, low and midlift flow numbers, and other variables all play a big role in your final power and TQ output.
There are certainly other good heads out there from sponsors directly to your right, but considering the better casting quality, the flow consistency of the AFR's, and the fact we targeted the design for applications that most of us on this board are building (street/strip cars with .600 ish camshafts), the 225's (or the 205's) are tough to beat when you factor in all the variables.
Good luck with the build and call me at AFR if you have any questions...
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
04-24-2005, 10:04 AM
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AFR's are by far the most consistent heads out there. The CNC machining on them are outstanding. Give some sponsors a call who use them for some feedback. Are they the highest flowing? Close but like mentioned above, a LS6 Stage III head will outflow them but also out cost them by a big margin.
04-24-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DrkPhx
AFR's are by far the most consistent heads out there. The CNC machining on them are outstanding. Give some sponsors a call who use them for some feedback. Are they the highest flowing? Close but like mentioned above, a LS6 Stage III head will outflow them but also out cost them by a big margin.
How much will they outflow them by?
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04-24-2005, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Before this thread gets all soughts of ugly there are a couple of important factors to consider.
Comparing "advertised" flow numbers is total BS. Too many variables...Ive touched on this 10 times already and will continue to do so. If possible, speak to an unbiased "independent" that has had the opportunity to flow all of the heads you are considering on the SAME equipment.
Also, assuming you are building ANY hydraulic roller cammed application, the 225's are going to be almost impossible to beat. They are designed to be extremely efficient from the crack of the valve to .600 lift or so. I've seen a few much larger heads (245cc ish) go a little better at .600-.650, but the area under the curve of the 225's was significantly better. Unless you were to run a solid roller approaching .700 lift (to compensate for valve lash which reduces "net" lift), the bigger head would'nt be the better choice.
Also, there's alot more to making power than big peak flow numbers. Look at how much power alot of people are generating with our 205 cc runner that "only" flows 300 legit CFM's. Not too many people would have believed it 6-12 months ago. Cross sectional area, low and midlift flow numbers, and other variables all play a big role in your final power and TQ output.
There are certainly other good heads out there from sponsors directly to your right, but considering the better casting quality, the flow consistency of the AFR's, and the fact we targeted the design for applications that most of us on this board are building (street/strip cars with .600 ish camshafts), the 225's (or the 205's) are tough to beat when you factor in all the variables.
Good luck with the build and call me at AFR if you have any questions...
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
Comparing "advertised" flow numbers is total BS. Too many variables...Ive touched on this 10 times already and will continue to do so. If possible, speak to an unbiased "independent" that has had the opportunity to flow all of the heads you are considering on the SAME equipment.
Also, assuming you are building ANY hydraulic roller cammed application, the 225's are going to be almost impossible to beat. They are designed to be extremely efficient from the crack of the valve to .600 lift or so. I've seen a few much larger heads (245cc ish) go a little better at .600-.650, but the area under the curve of the 225's was significantly better. Unless you were to run a solid roller approaching .700 lift (to compensate for valve lash which reduces "net" lift), the bigger head would'nt be the better choice.
Also, there's alot more to making power than big peak flow numbers. Look at how much power alot of people are generating with our 205 cc runner that "only" flows 300 legit CFM's. Not too many people would have believed it 6-12 months ago. Cross sectional area, low and midlift flow numbers, and other variables all play a big role in your final power and TQ output.
There are certainly other good heads out there from sponsors directly to your right, but considering the better casting quality, the flow consistency of the AFR's, and the fact we targeted the design for applications that most of us on this board are building (street/strip cars with .600 ish camshafts), the 225's (or the 205's) are tough to beat when you factor in all the variables.
Good luck with the build and call me at AFR if you have any questions...
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
Just doing my research first on this expensive mod.
.
04-24-2005, 11:02 AM
#10
tony smacked it on the head.people talk so much crap about flow #'s and don't look at the big picture. thunderracing told me they had two sets of different heads and flowed them. head (A) out flowed head (B) by a long shot. then they put each head on the dyno and the lesser flowing head (B) made more power and had a better curve. the AFR heads will be hard to top,they are an awsome head and i picked up alot of power over my old ported heads.when i looked at the two heads side by side my old heads looked better and i thought i would not make power. well i made a mess more power and tq.i even made more power down low where i should of lost because of my new bigger cam.
04-24-2005, 11:09 AM
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Tony- No disrespect of AFR's was intended, in fact I am shifting gears on my setup and will most likely be using AFR 225's on my 408ci project car. The question asked was about 350-375cfm flowing heads so I said what I said.
As you have stated making power is about more that just flow, but user goals also comes in to play and for a race only setup some loss of low end tq for high end flow is usually not as big an issue as for a street/strip car since that race only car is running at max effort from start to finish.
BTW Tony when we going to see the 225's with a 62cc combustion chamber?
As you have stated making power is about more that just flow, but user goals also comes in to play and for a race only setup some loss of low end tq for high end flow is usually not as big an issue as for a street/strip car since that race only car is running at max effort from start to finish.
BTW Tony when we going to see the 225's with a 62cc combustion chamber?
04-24-2005, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Quickin
How much are the LS6 stage III heads that will outflow the AFR's?
How much will they outflow them by?
How much will they outflow them by?
MTI (sponsor>>) Stage III heads are $3290 PLUS exchange for LS6 heads.
Here's a link for flow numbers. http://www.motorsporttech.com/c5_engine01.asp
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Futral Motorsports (sponsor here >>) Stage III heads $2695 PLUS core.
No flow numbers posted.
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TEA LS6 LS6 Stage III heads $2293.65 PLUS $1200 for brand new LS6 castings or supply your own.
Link for flow #'s http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr.../gmhead/gmls6/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thunder Racing/GTP heads (sponsor here >>) $2999.00 for Stage III LS1 heads. $500 core charge
no flow numbers posted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps.
04-24-2005, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hc_performance
How about getting some afr 225's and having one of our sponsors like TEA or FMS do a little something extra to them? 
04-24-2005, 01:44 PM
#17
I'll name a few porters that I know of who are getting the mega flow numbers. Casey Snider, Greg Good, Craig Gallant, Trevor Johnson, Larry Meaux. Keep in mind a 350-375 cfm head is not going to have a 225cc intake runner. But if you want to run over 150 mph NA with over 3200 lb race weight (like Judson Massingil), you'll need a head that will flow huge volumes of air. The SAM car has ported LS6 heads that flow over 375cfm. Anyone calling BS would only have to look at the mph (154) to see otherwise.
As an owner of AFR heads, I chose consistency, airspeed, and value over absolute flow numbers. But then again, I'm not a hard-core racer like I used to be.
As an owner of AFR heads, I chose consistency, airspeed, and value over absolute flow numbers. But then again, I'm not a hard-core racer like I used to be.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
04-24-2005, 02:20 PM
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I'd love to see the layout on a set of these 350 CFM plus LS6 based heads.
Having flowed numerous LSX head variants (including C5R heads) my guess is that these LS6 based heads have significantly raised roofs and need a very trick intake - any pics or specs?
Having flowed numerous LSX head variants (including C5R heads) my guess is that these LS6 based heads have significantly raised roofs and need a very trick intake - any pics or specs?
04-24-2005, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Quickin
I just have a history of buying something, then shortly after that finding out that I could have bought something better for the same $$$ or a little more.
Just doing my research first on this expensive mod.
Just doing my research first on this expensive mod.
TEA AFR Stage 3 LS1
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 68.1 55.1
.200" 141.2 123.9
.300" 207.5 187.1
.400" 261.6 241.1
.500" 304.6 268.3
.550" 323.4 275.4
.600" 341.2 277.8