nuzee

iTrader: (2)

I'm talking stock converter
High stall convertered cars=manual trans

blkZ28spt

okay, gotcha. Good thing the rule of thumb is to get a converter before a cam.

nuzee

iTrader: (2)

No wonder my thumb has been sore. Its been broken all this time!
Nah, seriously, that is a good rule of thumb. For me, doing a small cam to try and enhance the performance of the stock converter was due to my specific driving situation. I don't think many others out there are forced to drive like a granny and be happy to get 12 mpg because of the traffic.

Sorry for getting this off-topic....... now back to the subject!

MikeMs01TA

iTrader: (2)

Attached is a comparison of my dyno runs before the cam/headers and after. I'm running cats on my LTs as well. Mods are listed in the sig. I put the cam in before the LTs, and I noticed a nice increase in power everywhere. I was very happy with it It's the smaller CC212/218 cam, with .525/.528 lift I think? After I've had it awhile, I wonder if I would have liked the 216/220 cam better, but I've got no regrets
I wasn't looking for max power, and I got exactly what I wanted! More power everywhere for weekend backroad blasts, and I can still cruise in 6th down to 45mph. Only tuning issues I had were all due to the LTs added later. Cat overheat was kicking in (the 352hp dyno run), and it seems to be running rich after the headers.
If I go with new heads later, I'll try to get a cam to match them that will just shift up my existing curve. I know I would hate driving some of the bigger cams I've seen graphs of, where they have nothing below 3000-4000!

SsZERO

Isn't it better to get a TQ converter based on the powerband of the cam instead of the other way around? Some cams would need higher stall speeds than others to maximize performance.

PREDATOR-Z

There is the trick! Choosing Cam/heads and stall should be done at the same time.
But I would put my stall in first as it nets you the most time gains and fun.
That is why I got a PI, VIG 3200, I can restall it for free within the 2 first years of ownership.
IMO no stall shoul dbe smaller than a 3500 flash for even a stock cammed LS1.
My VIG 3200 flashes at 3600.

BADSS

iTrader: (7)

One thing I think you (the thread author) are failing to take into consideration is this: How much of that low end torque can you actually use on the street? Because with street tires and 4.10 gears, you probably will have more low end torque than you can use with any of the cams mentioned in this thread.

I have had 4 cams (5 if you count the stock cam) in a 4.10 geared M6 Camaro SS: TR 220/220 (114 LSA), TR 224/224 (112 LSA), FMS F11 (228/230, 112 LSA), and an FTI (Ed Curtis) 227/231 113 LSA cam.

They all made more low end torque than I could use on the street with street tires- meaning I could basically spin the tires at will at lower speeds.

For driveability, the TR 220/220 was my favorite- it had perfect street manners. But the other three sounded a lot meaner.

If you want a lope you can hear at idle, I would suggest nothing smaller than a 224/224 cam.

Lethalchem

More torque is usable at low RPMs then perhaps you realize. Obviously my Cobra makes torque a different way then what we're talking about here, but I'm just addressing the usability of torque, as you mentioned.

I absolutely LOVE having tons of torque immediately, upon demand, regardless of the gear, speed, or rpm. That's what makes it so much fun on the street. My Cobra dynod at well over 420rwtq at just 2000rpm, peaking at 470 when all was said and done. Can I blow the tires off whenever I want? Sure...but I don't HAVE to. Part throttle still gives me plenty of push in the seat.

I can quickly pass cars on the freeway while remaining in 6th gear (something I don't bother trying in my cammed LT1). I can take off from a stop in 2nd gear all day long without bogging. My daily driving never requires me to go above 2000rpms if I don't want, and I still am ahead of people around me. I can jab the gas at 20mph in third gear, which is about 1300rpm, and STILL get pushed back in my seat.

Can it be too much? Sure, if I WANT it to be. But it's all still usable..and VERY fun.

SsZERO

I'm definitely looking into FI now.

Lethalchem

Well keep in mind several things. My description is true with a positive displacement blower, not a centrifugal. I could be wrong, but I don't believe they make a positive displacement blower for the Camaro yet...although Magnasun does for the Vette (weird).

Also, remember all the torque comes at a price. It becomes very ineffiicient at the upper RPMS, and becomes very hot. Other types of FI will produce higher peak numbers, but not near the broad torque curve..and not immedietly like mine does either. You have to decide what you want, and where you want it. Kind of like SSCoulter is saying. I think this is perfect for big grunt on the streets, and "fun factor" in daily driving. I don't think it's optimal for drag racers wh owant to squeeze every last bit from their cars.

Phil99TA

I saved this dyno sheet a few years back. The low end tq of this particular combination really caught my attention. I wish I knew the full details of the car.

SSCoulter

iTrader: (4)

Oh my God we have a winner!!!!!! That is what I'm talking about. That is a 224/224 .565 lift 106icl on a 110LSA cam with full bolt-on's. That's nasty. Yeah, the power starts to fall off after 6,000rpm's but I wouldn't care. That's the torque curve I have been looking for. Thank you for posting that.

I guess the Aussie's are right, "lower the lobe and bolt the seat"!!

SsZERO

I may be asking too much, but I want the "fun factor" down low, and I want to be able to hang with at least 600cc motorcycles. I doubt the H/C route would get me there without nitrous...at least on its own. If I were to go with one of those 402 LS2 strokers from SLP or SPDC, I may be able to hit high 10s NA if it is built right and my driving skills improve. I think they're good for 500+ RWHP without any breathing assistance.

Turbo is another option I'm looking at now. Phamspeed makes a turbo kit for $4,500, which is currently on sale for $4,000. It's pretty complete and uses stock manifolds. That kit plus a fuel system upgrade, tuning and a few other odds and ends would probably come in around $6500, give or take a few bucks (on an internally stock engine). That would probably do 550+ rwhp at 8-9 PSI with a broader and higher TQ curve than say something like a Procharger. Choosing a good cam - something like an LPE GT7, which is specifically made for turbo applications as I understand it, would help minimize turbo lag and the car would be more driveable than a H/C job.

The thing I learned from my first modding experience is to plan carefully, and plan ahead, unless you got deep pockets and don't mind backtracking. I now have a clear goal in mind for my car, and I'm going to find the most cost-effective way of getting there. Yeah I know, speed is not cost-effective, but you get my drift.

Felix C

I think you need to know more regarding that dyno sheet. It could be through and Auto with the converter skewing the results. Depends whether it was locked or unlocked.

SSCoulter

iTrader: (4)

I think your right, however it is much closer to what I was looking for as far as where that car is making it's power. I would love to have 400ft lbs of torque at 4,000rpm's. I am trying to buy a 224/224 .581 on a 108 +4 right now if I can get the guy to respond. I think that's the cam for me.

Ditto.

blkZ28spt

I you havn't tried you'll never know for sure. This is like people saying they'd hate the looseness of a new converter when they don't have any experience with them. I just can't help but think that some people don't know what they are missing.

KGSloan

i remember when that dyno sheet came out. it interested me greatly. that guy was running a manual transmission, just to clear things up.

SSCoulter

iTrader: (4)

That's some good news, thanks!

Mud

Lot of info. For what its worth, in a couple of days will be doing cam and converter swap. Real small TR220/220 - 114 and a vig 2800. I dealt with Paul at TR and after explaining what I wanted we discussed several cams and for me the TR220 looked great. I know this also is not a big stall but feel it is what will best serve me and its not a peice of junk. Already running LTs, no cats, cold air induction and LS6 intake which was standard on the 02s. I rarely go to the track and really just looking for good street performance. Any performance set-up should reflect what you want to do with your car. Any upgrade is good, otherwise it would be a downgrade.

Casperws6

that graph looks similar to the asa cam graph i have. . 350lbs of torque at 3k rpm