I've never bought cylinder heads. My valvetrain is all TSP but that has nothing to do with this thread. Just that I know TSP offered to make things right. I see both points in case. One being I'd be mad if I got a set of crappy heads for $1500. Yea you will replace them, but what if I didn't have them flowed. I woulda never known. However, point two is this was a bad set, there are improvements, send them back and get some brand new heads at no cost. The stupidest point in this thread that seems to keep popping up is a ringer set. He said pick any set out of racetech, so that negates that idea.

As for Tony being mad because TSP questions his integrity on providing false numbers. What are you doing by saying they are going to use a ringer set of heads. This is why I don't like you. Every post you have made that I have seen either promotes your product or bashes other vendors. All you are trying to do is tell everyone that you are the best and everyone else sucks. I'm sorry but no matter how good your product may be, that is not how to act.

 

There is no "bait and switch" tactics going on. We have NEVER slammed an AFR product; we don't conduct business like that. Too bad it is not mutual. It's like Jason said, we are no longer a dealer for AFR because of how all of this has been conducted. Jason's insinuations are only to lead on that we KNOW FOR A FACT what has been going on with a few cylinder head companies and this situation. We, as PRC, bought a 5-axis Haas CNC machine. Do you really think we need to sell a few sets of AFR cylinder heads to generate cash?

What do you think we're going to do to the heads that will be tested that will be so radically different from what every customer is going to get? It's not like we're going to perform a VooDoo ritual to transform the ports into C5R-style. With the new checks and balances in place, EVERY SET of cylinder heads will flow just the same as the heads tested. I'm up for Bo White or anyone else that both parties can trust to perform the swap.

If you look closely, there is NO relation between PP and AFR. We quit selling PP products for a few reasons, one of which was the fact that they refused to remedy some problems that we pointed out with their cylinder heads. We no longer sell AFR products because of how Tony has conducted himself with this situation. Their products have made respectable power, but that is not the issue.

You're right, sponsorship does not guarantee quality or service. However, reputation does. You've given it a good try to misdirect the thread and get even more issues stirred up, but let's attempt to keep it pointed in the original direction. You can reference the subject if need be.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
Precision Race Components, Ltd.

 

This might be interesting but I see a disaster waiting to happen. My question is what are you going to do about tuning?

 

I've already done some tuning on Matt's (1QuickTA) car. If I do the install or have my name associated with it in any manner... I'll be doing the tuning

Btw, I've know Matt for some time now and he knows that I'll do whatever it takes for his car to make the most power, regardless of what heads end up on the car in the end.

 

You guys should do it on an engine dyno, could be able to swap the heads in less than an hour and a half.
Phil

 

We have that test in the works, too.

 

Really???

Why is that???
That's a funny response...

If I have nothing to do with the thread, then why make it possible for ANYONE to post???

In case you haven't noticed, many others with "nothing to do with the thread" have posted their opinions and thoughts...
OK... but the original problem was with the set that Matt had. Not the "latest and greatest fix" that you now have. If this "match-up" was strictly for a publicity stunt, then the whole problem with Matt's cylinder head issues should have been left out.
As would any business that had a defective product out there.
I would think there are a few others in the "know"...
I wouldn't think as a competitor of AFR, you would want a superior product on your shelf either.
Whether or not TSP is "going away" or not is not the issue. The cream does rise to the top. However, since following the TSP cylinder head discussions, you've switched from PP to AFR and now to your own. In a business sense, it's smart to have your own to sell but the indecision you showed as you touted PP and then trampled them and now the same with AFR makes me wonder what is next???
I'll wait for Terry to confirm that he has no vested interest in the cylinder head company. So far he has yet to confirm nor deny.
As I said, in my opinion, the people involved with this "swap" are not the best choice for a fair comparison. Just as some of your proponants feel it is fair, I do not. What's wrong with that?
It may surprise you how much I do know. But since you feel I have no place in this topic, why should my opinion matter to you anyway?

I'll stick with selling ETP and AFR stuff, along with working with customers with TEA products. At least they're PROVEN to work!

As you requested... I'm outta here....

Ed

 

suscribing........

Are the results going to be in this thread or in there own???

 

So when are the heads going to be chosen from the ones on the shelf?

I would have to say that since this thread was started (early this morning) or from when this was decided that a lot could be done to a set of heads. OR even a few sets for that fact

 

It's more like this:
1. Matt,(1quickTA) purchesed PRC 2.5 heads.
2. As it seems, he sent them to Tony at AFR for flowing.
3. (Napolean Dynamite voice on).... Tony says they flow real bad....
4. 1quick posts that his heads are crap with out contacting TSP first.
5. Jason feels that Tony lied about the flowing of the head, or at least dosen't agree on how the heads were tested.
6. Jason tells Matt to send the heads back so he can see what's wrong, if anything and offers up new heads.
7. Jason and Tony argue and TSP will now no longer carry AFR products because of Tony's behavior, not because of rivalry heads. Seems AFR was dropped from there inventory because of the doings with these particular heads, not from any thing else before or after.
8. Jason offers up a EXCELLENT comparison. Out of the box means out of the box. AFR 205's vs. PRC 2.5 5.3's.

There is no reason for anyone to bitch about anyhting not being fair. I believe this is as fair as it gets. No one should care about diffrent castings or this and that. It's a comparison between 2 out of the box heads. Run what you brung! There will always be variables in every thing, so this seems like the best way. Same motor, same day. Nothing swapped but the heads and tuning. I don't expect the PRC heads to "win". I do however feel the will perform in a fashion very similar to the AFR's for less money. I don't own either heads, so I am completly unbiast. As for the original heads that started this battle, I think everyone should test every thing when they recieve it. Nothing goes on my car witthout being tested first. I don't care if it's heads or a shortblock. I flow heads before they go on and I check clearences before I install motors. That's just the world of the internet. It's hard to tell who you are dealing with, no matter how well you think you know them......

 

lol Thank-you, I couldn't have said it better myself. lol

 

The guys at TSP still seem to think the Racetech head is better than the AFR. I say let them go at it and see if Racetech can do a better job than AFR.

 

As I am too, and my comment about compression was not intended for you. Someone mentioned 5.3 vs. AFR, flow numbers can be a direct comparison, but then there is the whole bench vs. technique issue. There simply cannot be an Out of the Box comparison on a ported 5.3 to AFR. Cant happen, impossible because there is the compression issue if nothing else. Stick with loser terms like, comparison b/w PRC 5.3L 2.5 and AFR 205 66cc and your golden. I have inquired on getting a set of 5.7L unmilled heads worked by PRC, essentially it would be the exact same programming that the smaller chambered 5.3 has, but of course on the larger chamber head. That would make for a direct comparison.

Lady Hawk...yes and no, on your comment of having nothing to do with cc's, valve sizing...again doing a COMPARISON b/w PRC's 5.3L 2.5 heads and AFR 205 66cc is one thing....a DIRECT COMPARISON (which is what the bandwagon wants to see) cannot be done. It may be a matter of Semantics to some, but those few letters can make for one hell of an arguement later. Kind of like the clearance on a main journal should be .006" max comapred to around .006"!

 

After reading some more of the thread, I agree with Ed that it wouldn't be very impartial to have Gomer do the testing. Afterall, he has a very close relationship with TSP and Terry. I'm not trying to say that the test will be rigged, but there will be doubt in people's minds.

Why not have a sponsor NOT involved in this mess do the testing.

 

That was the plan with getting Bo White in there. Bo is friends with Tony M & I've spoke with Bo a time or two.

I guess we all have versions of what we want to see. I just think a comparison of two heads the way the come out of the box would have been cool.

 

There is no Racetech cylinder head.There is only PRC heads!

 

Well, whatever yall are calling them now, it will be interesting to see how they stack up to an AFR 205.

 

would have been cool? does that mean it isn't gonna happen now???

 

I think your looking to far into it. It wasn't intended to be a test of each head having the same cc and so forth. It was a direct comparison between the 2.5 / 5.3 and the AFR. Both are out of the box heads. You are directly comparing the 2 to see which makes more power. Directly comparing dosen't mean everything about the heads has to be exact. If the PRC's get 3-4 hp from compression, then so be it. If we wanted an everythings equal test, then we would call it that. That being said, we'd have to call the test unfair because the runners are diffrent sizes. There comes a point when you just have to do the damn test and see who makes more power. That's the bottom line. All the bickering and and whining about things not being "exact" are what cause these things not to happen. If we had to pick two heads that were exact to test, we'd never get a test because nothing is the "same".

 

If all the heads are tested for quality, is there a flow chart sent with them ? My cam came with every spec of it. Do heads?

I hate my PRC vs AFR thread I started. It started out informative and just went to crap. It was meant to see how each head performed. Put the same heads on two differant cars, and you'll get differant RWHP numbers. I was interested in seeing what gains guys were getting from the PRC. I did the search on the AFRs. PRCs I guess are new and didnt have as many hits.

The heads are very differant from each other. Out of the box on a dyno and out of a box on your car are two differant tests. out of the box, I think PRC might flow the same as AFR for $700 less. If it was 8 CFM less than all of the AFR peak numbers, for $700 less who would care on the street. How much HP are we talking off a couple CFM. If your going just drag racing, I think you can do more options with AFRs because they are a differant build seperate from GM core heads. It would be like comparing numbers on cams from differant companies. My TR224 is just a little differant from your comp cam ..224 cam.

I could be wrong, but two tuning shops will get differant RWHP out of a car from how they tune it. lots of guys pay for dyno tuning on there car, and they get a mail order tune and a dyno chart run. Would you really know ? Bullshit you wouldnt know. I think your get more out of a great tune, than the little you loss between the numbers these heads would put up.

Do shops buy cores and put on their own type of springs and valves on them and save a couple buck. You betcha. Thats why you get 3 differant prices from 3 differant companies. If I get X spring for $200 and g spring for $150 and they both will work fine on your car and never have a problem with either, which spring do you really think your going to get when the valve cover is sealed. If I buy a case with 500 valves from source E and 1000 Valves from source K, in the gross packet, which spring cost less. It all about how close you can come to cost savings without breaking someones toy.

Money wasnts a option for me when I consider parts for my car, its more of if the parts worth that money. Combine all the big and little things you've done to your car, and your still at about a $100.00 per 1 hp-excluding N02.

I talked with Tony M. 2 times on the phone and 5-6 PMs. Was nice to me. It's his job to love and push his product. He told me all the good AFR had to offer. I doubt id use the AFRs to their potential. I factored that in. Ive talked to Jason as TSP and to tell you the truth, he never pushed either head on me and told me ID love either. Money wasn't the object, so in the busniess sense, TSP should make about the same market up off me from either heads I bought. They really had no interest or tried to steer me to which set I selected. God honest truth.

if there is a bottom line to my posting here, Any one would be pissed if they paid $1500 for PRC or $2158 for AFRs and they flowed crappy. But who really checks? I tell you now, I will when I get the brand I picked just to keep everyone honest. after all, this is the internet.