View Poll Results: AFR or TEA
Spend the extra money on the better head
97
68.31%
Save a bit of money and put it toward another mod or tuning
45
31.69%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll
AFR vs TEA
08-05-2005, 05:02 AM
#61
thanks tony, so it sounds like that is a max recommended stopping point? ive got the f13 230/232 .598/.587, but i only spin it up to 6800 because i dont wanna blow the bottom end lol. this is another thing i love about afr, questions get answered honestly, you guys are awesome
08-05-2005, 07:02 AM
#62
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While I like these post I hate them at the same time. Allthough I think it is clear that AFR & TEA are the choices for most. They were who i was debating between. I had the money so I went AFR.
My numbers are in my sig. I gained 42rwhp, and 23rwtq by going with the AFR heads.
Don't have no idea what I would have gotten had i gone with TEA. I am sure those results would be very good as well though.
My numbers are in my sig. I gained 42rwhp, and 23rwtq by going with the AFR heads.
Don't have no idea what I would have gotten had i gone with TEA. I am sure those results would be very good as well though.
08-05-2005, 07:46 AM
#63
ben, are those heads out of the box or unmilled, that is another choice to consider going wtih afr, i ran mine out of the box to see how they do but 59 or 62 cc mill is something to keep in mind depending on your cam size to squeeze a little more power out, the afr heads out of box with gm mls gasket are what? 10.3:1 or so? and how much would you gain in power going up to 11.1:1? i would imagine somewhere near 10 rwhp? tony can you comment on that too lol?
08-05-2005, 08:24 AM
#64
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
ben, are those heads out of the box or unmilled, that is another choice to consider going wtih afr, i ran mine out of the box to see how they do but 59 or 62 cc mill is something to keep in mind depending on your cam size to squeeze a little more power out, the afr heads out of box with gm mls gasket are what? 10.3:1 or so? and how much would you gain in power going up to 11.1:1? i would imagine somewhere near 10 rwhp? tony can you comment on that too lol?
Like if you made 400rwhp at 10:1 so + 4% = 416rwhp at 11:1 and another 5 for combustion efficiency, you could be looking at 421 rwhp from that 1 point bump in compression and better quench (squish).
08-05-2005, 08:54 AM
#65
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
For every point of SCR calculate an average of +4%, do that with a tight quench .035>.038 (street), or .030>.035 (race), {that will give you better and more efficient flame travel and combustion + diminishes detonation probability}; you will be able to sqeeze up to 25 rwhp depending you Hp numbers at 10.0:1
Like if you made 400rwhp at 10:1 so + 4% = 416rwhp at 11:1 and another 5 for combustion efficiency, you could be looking at 421 rwhp from that 1 point bump in compression and better quench (squish).
Like if you made 400rwhp at 10:1 so + 4% = 416rwhp at 11:1 and another 5 for combustion efficiency, you could be looking at 421 rwhp from that 1 point bump in compression and better quench (squish).
08-05-2005, 09:12 AM
#66
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
not trying to steal the thread or get off topic, i would pm you but this may be good info for someone to consider as well when choosing heads. but im not too clear on the quench you are talking about, and the measurements you gave. how do you achieve this? the quench numbers for the street is what i would be looking at
This calculate by measuring you piston in or out of the cylinder position relative to block deck.
So you take your gasket compressed thickness, minus the piston position measurement = quench (squish)
Quench = (Gasket thickness - piston position )
So if you piston is comming out of the hole at .007 inch (average stock LS1) and your gasket is .040, then
(0.040 - .007) = .033 quench (squish)
BTW piston position can vary on stock motors from .005 to .008 out of the hole. (That why it should be measured.)
08-05-2005, 09:14 AM
#67
ok thanks, do you know the thickness of the gm mls gasket by and chance? then ill stop these questions lol. thanks though, i never really understood it
looks like its 0.060 from a search real quick, is that right? guess thats not the best quench though is it? so a 0.045-0.040 gasket would prob be the best bet then huh? if you are in the range of the stock motor at least. is there much of any power increase by a change in quench say if you change it about 0.020? i was gonna try my set up how it is and then possibly mill the heads to 62 cc and go with a thinner gasket if need be, when i go to a bigger intake
looks like its 0.060 from a search real quick, is that right? guess thats not the best quench though is it? so a 0.045-0.040 gasket would prob be the best bet then huh? if you are in the range of the stock motor at least. is there much of any power increase by a change in quench say if you change it about 0.020? i was gonna try my set up how it is and then possibly mill the heads to 62 cc and go with a thinner gasket if need be, when i go to a bigger intake
08-05-2005, 09:24 AM
#68
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
ok thanks, do you know the thickness of the gm mls gasket by and chance? then ill stop these questions lol. thanks though, i never really understood it
I think the GM MLS is .060ish and the GM composite gaskets is .054ish.
On the subject of this thread, I cannot tell you the number of times I have had to buy hardware two or three times over because I got into a "cheapest power possible" mind set. I could have saved on total money spent if I would have just got the AFRs (and other equipment) from the start. But you know I would not listen to a damn thing anyone told me then and it cost me money, a lot
Other than someone just screwing you over on a price you really do get what you pay for. I am not saying don't be a shrewd shopper, just try to get the best price possible on the best part.
I went with milling the heads .024 (62cc chamber) and used a .045 Cometic gasket. My pistons were approx .008 out of the hole so my quench is .037-.038
Good luck,
08-05-2005, 02:20 PM
#69
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I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFR 205s out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
08-05-2005, 02:24 PM
#70
Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFRs out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
08-05-2005, 02:29 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFR 205s out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
ok back to reality now please...
08-05-2005, 02:38 PM
#72
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by jrp
no offense but you are simply uneducated. i will prove you wrong when i get home.
LOL
08-05-2005, 02:39 PM
#73
Originally Posted by jrp
no offense but you are simply uneducated. i will prove you wrong when i get home.
He must have figured all that out from his extensive list of modifications.... must have missed my dyno in my sig....
Last edited by SideStep; 08-05-2005 at 03:17 PM.
08-05-2005, 02:47 PM
#74
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFR 205s out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
No, here let me JRP....
AFR's "out of the box" have made as much as 480 RWHP. LG motorsports on a high compression motor made 530-540RWHP. Small "punk" cams have made 425. Evena "mid-size" cam combo easily makes 450. You need to use the search button, and please post up these results of which you speak... As the fact of which you speak are simply mis-informed
Have you looked at the port on an AFR? What part of the port needs to be changed in the AFR 205?
As for the LPE head. Is it a decent head? Yes, its a decent head. Its also about a 245-250cc intake runner. I have a flow sheet on one if you'd like to see it. The AFR head is as good or better with a 40-45cc smaller intake runner. (That whole flow vs velocity thing again...) I know a few folks who have LPE heads. There is nothing wrong with them per se, but your so called "facts" related to HP are in error....
As for me I'll take the same flow with much less volume to keep velocity and cylinder fill up. But what the heck do I know?
Last edited by J-Rod; 08-05-2005 at 02:57 PM.
08-05-2005, 03:51 PM
#77
Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFR 205s out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
This is a joke right?
I sure hope so and if not you need to think of a way to make it into a joke so that every person on this site dosen't think of you as a retard.
The comparision you make isn't a comparision.
The reason people start the AFR vs TEA threads is because of the results out of both companies. TEA dosen't bad mouth AFR and visaversa.
They have a understanding that both companies make a good product.
If the 205 cost 1550, and were 62cc out of the box like the TEA 1.5 5.3 heads are then there would be less of a reason to debate anything ever.
The AFR port design is far superior to any head on the market period.
The way TEA catches up is by having a head that flows very well, a real nice valve job, added compression, and price.
A out of the box TEA 5.3 has a good amount of compression difference and that really helps in making power.
Look at the lingenfelter head. It has less flow then the AFR and TEA head, and is more Hoged out then both. That sir is not a good combo.
Look through my threads I have started. I like the LPE heads and have used a set that made very good HP.
The flow numbers were just over 300@600 and they go turbulant soon after 600. We did make 487 to the wheels with them using a T rex cam in a 370 cubic inch motor with almost 12:1 compression. Good numbers for a cheep build. Then you look at some AFR 205 stock bottom end cars making 450+ with a large 220 duration cam/small 230 duration cam and you eyes go
Time for you to use the search feature a little more.
08-05-2005, 06:30 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by TroubledWine3
I may be late, but I'll take Lingenfelter heads over AFR or TEA. No offense but AFR 205s out of the box are making 420-430 while Lingenfelters, at the same price, are making 440-450.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
AFRs are great heads but they need to be ported more than what AFR does. And what's the point of buying a $2300 head and then having to get a $1000 port job when you can buy a $2300 head(Ling) and be done?
I would not shittalk any of the head companies around here(Patriot, TEA, AFR, Lingenfelter) but some of them clearly make more power than others.
Ed
08-05-2005, 06:43 PM
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I'm going by not only the word of several very reputable engine builders and tuners in the LS1 community who, if I mentioned their names, would shut you up, but by dyno sheets comparing similar cars with similar cams and modifications.
I'm not saying AFR 205s CAN'T outperform every other head, I'm saying out of the box.
225s are a completely, completely different ballgame altogether and they ******* kill.
I'm not saying AFR 205s CAN'T outperform every other head, I'm saying out of the box.
225s are a completely, completely different ballgame altogether and they ******* kill.